I’ve got no problem with them, but these are obviously kids who grew up in a different age than me, and it shows, I know what could seem a joke to me could come off different to them. Especially this being In the trades and the type of jokes we make here. I don’t want to make anyone uncomfortable, we’re all trying to just get through the day after all
Edit: I have learned, they used to be female, transitioned to male. (So trans-masc? I’m probably messing that up) Lesbian, and non-binary, thankfully they brought it up which was very helpful as I wasn’t sure if it was appropriate to ask
Yeah… since you are asking, try not to do anything. They’re people. They like jokes too.
Of course, all advise given in this thread is valuable, but I mean being overcautious may be the “special treatment” that is there routinely reminding them “oh you’re different”. They don’t need that. Just respect.
Hey, Non-binary trans masc person in trades here.
I can tell you how I perceive different types of co-worker if it helps you want to dial in what it’s like on the other side of the experience. There’s layers to the whole situation and as non-binary folks we understand what we are asking for isn’t automatically going to click and requires people to figure us out.
First up : Most of us end of day aren’t going to rock the boat for anything less than fully agregious behaviour so calls to report other people for being mildly offensive are probably not actually going to go anywhere. Most of us are scared of being labelled “a problem” so we just take the hits when they come. If you are a boss and notice a non-binary person sticking closer to specific people and avoiding others there’s a good chance that they’ve found the people who are safe and avoiding ones who aren’t. A great accommodation that can invisibly help is just to recognize this strata and if a task nessesitates putting people together try and pair along these lines. A lot of co-workers wait until other people aren’t around to let their nastier behaviour shine.
Now to co-worker types. Aside from the full on transphobe or problem persons there’s a range of different stages of cool people.
The “I don’t really get it” Co-worker pays lip service to the polite aspects of using pronouns. They are the type to introduce you to others by misgendering you and then flap their hands and go “Oh no sorry ‘they’”. We know they don’t get it or don’t really care. The misgendering still hurts but they are fairly benign. They make these accidents non maliciously and are afforded grace. If they step in it we basically disregard because they aren’t really worth the effort of getting too comfortable around. We make these accommodations for strangers daily. Annoying but nessisary.
The “in training” co-worker is one whom is encountering their very first trans person. They want you to be their Obi wan and their enthusiasm is a bit of a double edged sword at times. It’s tiring to teach people to dance when they keep stepping on your feet but the job needs doing. Some of us veiw this as our own brand of service to the cause of normalizing ourselves more widely. Some of us just don’t want to be bothered. Either way, just wanting to learn is heaps better than ambivalence. If you fuck up something, don’t make a big deal about it. It’s not that you’re a terrible person and should have known better. Our stuff takes practice and we know it’s not intuitive.
The “A little too up in our shit” co-worker is excited to know the real you but looks at you as a beautiful creature in need of preservation. They might seek to advocate on your behalf or behind your back but the attempt is clumsy and often at odds with a non-binary person’s desire to just get through the workday as a regular human and not make waves. Good enthusiasm sure, we’re probably friends but for the love of God we’re adults and we can sort out our own shit if need be.
The “Understands the Assignment” co-worker is just comfortable to be around. They don’t have to be the most tuned in to all the nuance about our specific needs in ways we require more out of partners, family and friends but they treat our basic requirements as no big deal, maybe they occasionally ask questions to check in if they catch us struggling or reacting but aren’t going to narc to the boss on our behalf. They either avoid all stereotypes associated with sex or in the case of trans mascs/trans femmes they treat us like one of the boys/girls. Gold standard.
You’re not a dick for getting someone’s pronouns wrong… You’re a dick if you intentionally and continuously misgender them on purpose.
I still mess up my sister’s spouse. They’re NB, but kept their name, hobbies, etc. To me, they’re the exact same awesome person they’ve always been, so I still screw up and call them by male pronouns.
I 100% support them, but I screw up and it feels bad.
Well, I have had two people tell me very rudely that I’m an asshole because I got their pronoun wrong because they had it at the start of the presentation somewhere. And I also have had dozens more who corrected me politely a couple of times and then I’d just remember the right pronouns.
Assholes are assholes magrinalized or not.
Exactly. Sure it sucks when it happens by accident, but it’s to be expected to some extent. It’s when someone is doing it intentionally to fuck with you that it really gets under your skin. It’s disrespectful.
I’m trans, and have also worked with trans kids. Sometimes outed myself when it was safe - showing young trans men that yes, you can be a man.
It really comes down to “what name and pronouns would you me to call you by?”
If you want to go above and beyond: “would you like me to correct/step in for you if someone calls you by the wrong names/pronouns?” I feel this is a place where adult advocates can have good impact.
“Does your family know/should I use your legal name when talking to your family?”
See the child as a person who deserves dignity and respect, who is in a vulnerable position and does need unconditional support. Which is true for all children. You don’t have to put up a progress flag or wear a rainbow pin - these can certainly be very good things to do - but at the end of the day, just honor the child.
If you call somebody by their name, you can never mess up their gender.
Ok Alex, Shelby, Erin. Unless you mean like if you ignore the entire concept and rely solely on their name with no formalities.
I think they meant to just avoid using pronouns.
Which is an awkward and strange way to speak to people.
There are actually people who prefer you not to use pronouns when referring to them, and indeed always use their name. Might be awkward at first, but you get used to it.
People can prefer lots of stuff, “this aspect of the English language is not to apply to me” is a lot of cognitive load to ask for.
As a trans woman who routinely has to deal with “shop talk” my advice is that since theyre young explain the way that it works to them and let them know how to speak up when shit gets uncomfortable.
Cleaning it up and getting professional and polite would theoretically be great, but the fact is that their career will involve this and if everyone has to clean up their language resentment will build and people will just exclude them. Meanwhile everyone should feel comfortable saying “too far” or “hey you’re hitting a sore spot” or even “not cool”.
This is really truly the best advice.
I am a straight male. But by definition I’m gender fluid. I have endured through my life no end of abuse for this, and it’s nothing close to what my trans partners in the past have experienced.
But in the end, it comes down to having a spine and being able to assert yourself.
Especially in trades, there is no end of ball-breaking and risque dialogue. If you are not able to defend yourself or say okay dude the joking has gone far enough, you are not going to have a happy life and you need to find something else to do to make money.
If we live in the online reality where “ideal” behavior is constantly advocated and expected, we are never going to connect to the truth of life which is that bullshit is everywhere and we have to learn to stand up to it and flow with it.
Just be yourself & be open. There’ll always be troublemakers on all sides
Good on ya for making an effort and being open to learning. I would buy you a beer if I could.
I’d be fine with you buying me a beer in their place.
Meet me at the bar this evening. If you show up, I’ll buy you a round.
Im omw 🫡
Well, one thing I know is: make sure you don’t out them. If a kid has transphobic parents, you really don’t want to accidentally inform them their kid is trans.
I mean I just stay out of peoples personal lives as a principal
Great start. It also goes for work. Even if they’re open about it, just don’t allow comment on it at all at work. People quite often say “so there’s a lad working on X team and he’s trans but you’d never know” or needlessly say “oh yeah Katie, she’s trans”. Shut that down RUTHLESSLY around you unless the trans person says not to
I dont understand people’s need to share shit like that.
It’s up there with (though obviously not as private and sensitive as) when people tell you a story about someone they interacted with and just have to make sure you know the skin colour of the person when it holds zero relevance to the story.
I know it’s ingrained into what people say. Maybe it’s the unusual things people feel they need to comment on? Idk though
I like this idea and will do my best to put it to work. Shut that shit down. Thank you.
Np thanks for looking out for trans people!
I can’t speak for trans people, but i would expect that the best course of action is to be yourself and dont mock anyone. You can rib and have a laugh, but dont open with a whole script of trans jokes. Get to k ow them, like you would with anyone and learn the boundaries naturally. If you think of them as different, you will be on edge the whole time and are more likely to mess up.
If you make any mistakes, just be sure to apologise, and i am sure any of them would understand. Ultimately, as far as i understand it, trans people just want to be accepted and allowed to be them selves and be a part of society. The only way that happens is if we dont treat them differently, whether thans positively or negatively.
I’d avoid any and all controversial topics and just keep things purely professional.
Used to be I’d engage with someone based on their physical presentation, but even that is a bit tricky anymore, and with social media blowing up even the most minor misunderstandings, it’s best to just keep it professional.
Maybe “engaging with someone’s physical presentation” was just always a bad idea and you’ve just recently realized that.
Treating people with kindness and respect mostly works out fine.
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How many trans people do you know? Has a trans person gotten mad at you for something?
Charitably, it seems like people who have never met trans people seem to think they’re balls of tinder, waiting to explode at any imagined slight. There is a lot of misinformation and propaganda out there and trans people are a punching bag.
Yes, words change a lot, and maybe someone might ask you to use a different word. That’s not an attack on you.
Yeah, you might meet someone on a bad day or there could be a misunderstanding, but, in general, treating people with kindness and respect works out pretty well.
treating people with kindness and respect
That’s what I said. Be courteous.
Pick the one that’s been working there longest and ask them these questions. Check in they feel ok with how the workplace is trucking
Call me whatever you want at this point, but if it comes down to “A [type of person] has shown up at my job, what topics should I avoid?” it’s time to start updating the resume.
Reactions like this do nothing to further anything. Pointing at a post where someone acknowledges their lack of understanding and ignorance, a post where someone is trying to be more open and accepting, and telling them that they are the problem and should give up is as close minded and bigoted as the person you’re making OP out to be
Someone that lacks empathy?
Things I am likely to say to my team at work:
“I emailed you an STL. Please print two of them, and be ready to print 18 more if the customer approves.”
“Put on your safety glasses.”
“The lathe’s coolant pump is not working, I think it may be the contactor. Take a look at it when you first clock in tomorrow and let me know what parts we need if any; I’m going to need it up and running by Thursday.”
“Safety glasses go on the front of your head, not the top.”
“SomeCo has our steel order ready, take the company truck and pick it up. Make sure to get a copy of the P.O.”
“Put. On. Your safety glasses.”
“How’s it coming on those base plates? Can we get started on the brackets yet or are we still waiting?”
“If you get vitreous humor on my drill press, you’re the one that’s gonna clean it up.”
If you can’t handle being spoken to in this manner, you are not going to last long on my team.
Those are not the only words you utter at work. Don’t be ridiculous.
You are completely and entirely missing the point of this post.
When new people from different cultures or backgrounds assimilate into a new work place, being culturally sensitive is expected and the standard.
Yeah I’m more or less with the Republicans on this one. Either you’re suffering from gender dysphoria, and you should seek treatment from qualified mental health personnel, or you went on Tumblr as a tweenager and instead of being a greaser or punk or goth you’re “trans.” Either way, this is not your employer or coworker’s problem.
As expected, a complete lack of empathy
You’re right. If that dude works with you, I’d also suggest them to brush up their resume.
Empathy is a really stupid idea when all you’ll ever be is what people can extract from you.
Hey there, who hurt you so bad you gave up empathy all together?
Edit: added a missing ‘up’ in that sentence.
It must strain a lot of brain cells parroting ol musky.
Gender dysphoria is a mental problem, in the sense that it causes mental distress to be in the wrong body. The treatment is not therapy, it’s surgery to correct the body to fit the mind. A therapist can help identify the cause of the distress, but if the cause is the body then that therapist will recommend surgery.
I recall seeing research suggesting that trans people’s brainwaves more closely match that of their “desired” gender than that of their sex. It reinforces the idea that being transgender isn’t a mental issue, it’s a physical issue that causes mental distress.
A trans man isn’t a woman who merely thinks she’s a man, it’s actually a man inside that skull. Only the body underneath it is wrong. It’s as if tomorrow you woke up in the body of the opposite gender. That will (after the novelty wears off) start distressing you. Trans people didn’t wake up like that, they were born with that feeling.
Trans people are weird, but so is everyone else.
Ehhhhhh, I get what you’re trying to say, but also, yikes?
I mean I was trying to be cute there, but I genuinely think that this it the way to proper respect and non-bigotry in the workplace. You have lots of oddball people in every workplace of more than 3 people, and you’re supposed to function with all of them. Trans is just one more. And of course it’s all subjective, so the people you might think are perfectly normal are completely bizarre to some other people and vice versa. And you have to navigate around that too.
“I’m not sure I understand, but am willing to have an open mind and listen and understand where you’re coming from. If you’ll have patience to explain to me, I’d be willing to learn with humility and humanity and do my best to be a better person”
Admit ignorance, commit to being a good person. It’s not that hard.
What’s with the unwarranted condescension?
It’s not condescension. That’s quite literally the point. So many people just refuse to be or have never learned to be humble. This is literally a great cooperative and constructive stance to take. You don’t have to be tough, you aren’t showing off to anybody - you’re asking somebody for help understanding them. If that’s really a problem, then you need to reassess how you navigate the world with others and why. If you genuinely do this for some trans kid, they’ll love you and be more than willing to help you understand because basically nobody ever cares about them or their experiences. You’d make their year (shit. If you do this for anybody and you’ll make them happy). But don’t do it just to do it, actually embody this humility. It’ll be weird at first, but you might even make a friend.
If your first reaction is to be offended by advice, maybe you shouldn’t be in leadership.
Would you be genuinely interested in my feedback about why literally everyone agrees with me that you have a combative tone, or would you just condescendingly dismiss that as well?
Hit me.
There. Was that at hard?
It’s apparently easier than you not being a jackass, at least.
Edited. My intent is not to be a jackass, but to point out that SO many people use any excuse to not just bridge the gap and try to understand other people.
To be perfectly clear, though, I’ve been explaining this to people for years, and I’m absolutely sick and tired of the same old excuses and pushback. So I apologize if some of that unfairly came out here to people who are new to this and may be undeserving of that specific criticism.
No one talks like this
Do you mean no one talks like this in your industry or company? You could always be a vanguard and set the tone. Also you don’t have to say exactly that, word for word. My point is to just level with them, admit you don’t really know, and then to listen and try to understand their story a bit. Even the notion in dude-speak or whatever will be heard loud and clear and you’ll make their day, and everybody will be happier for it.
No you’re making it sound like they’re going to be a problem right from the start and you’re willing to understand
Is “they” op or the trans kid?
Trans
I do not agree with an angry mob downvoting you, but I’ll notice this is probably not the context to put this in.
This looks more like a parent figuring out about their kids being trans. In the OP’s context, everyone is on an even ground.
Here, it is mostly important to use their preferred names/pronouns and consult on the terms as necessary.
