You must log in or register to comment.
I man how many Americans show would pass that. Doesn’t glorify unhealthy relationships covers a lotof stuff.
I agree with the sentiment that loli shit is disgusting, but the problem is that so many of you sexless prudes go in looking for shit to be offended by and start projecting onto shit that’s fine. Like the character Kusano in Sekirei is fully gross, a disgusting pedo-bait character that simply should not exist in the story, period. That shit should absolutely be rallied against.
But then y’all bring up shit like Momo from MHA like it’s the same thing. It’s fucking not, at all. A post or near post-adolescent character wearing titillating attire in much the same way that comparable real life pop stars do is just not even remotely on the same level as actual children being depicted as sexual viable partners, especially in the context of a story like MHA where the protag is a literal high schooler expressing romantic interest in his age-appropriate peers.
And “glorifying unhealthy relationships” is fine enough critique I suppose but one that hardly applies solely, or even primarily, to manga and anime.
Reposting from the last time this subject came up
Bolded titles are my top recs. Series listed in chronological order of my seeing them:
Steins;Gate (correction: episode 8 unfortunately has one character grope another one. Everyone rightfully calls him out for being a creepass)
Castlevania (shut up yes it is)
Vivy: Fluorite Eyes Song
Violet Evergarden (not the movie)
Hyouka (skip the ova)
Belle
A Silent Voice
Baccano
Deca-dence
Trigun
Akudama Drive
ACCA: 13 Territory Inspection Dept.
Fullmetal Alchemist
Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood
Spy Family
Mushishi
5 Centimeters Per Second
Afro Samurai
Your Lie In April
Nichijou
Odd Taxi
Cowboy Bebop
Canaan
Sk8 the Infinity
Supercrooks
Bocchi the Rock
House of Five Leaves
Weathering With You
Haibane Renmei
Samurai Flamenco
BNA
Redline
Planetes
Last Exile
Witch Hunter Robin
Noir
Wolf’s Rain
Boogiepop Phantom
Boogiepop And Others
Ghost In The Shell (all timelines)
Niea_7
Serial Experiments Lain
Megalo Box
Bakumatsu Kikansetsu Irohanihoheto
Samurai Champloo
Bubblegum Crisis
Ergo Proxy
Read Or Die (OVA and The TV)
Madlax
Moribito
Xam’d: Lost Memories
Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind
Kyousougiga
Orb: On the Movements of the Earth
Cyberpunk Edgerunners
Sonny Boy
Kiki’s Delivery Service
Thus concludes the exhaustive list of animes I’ve watched where I didn’t have to put up with any sexualization of minors
There’s a lot of terrible anime, but there’s also a lot of fantastic anime. There’s a lot of anime.
Just like with books. Or movies. Or videogames. It’s a medium, not a genre.
Not at all “just like.” You don’t have to wade through 90% of literary fiction or Hollywood films in order to find a handful of titles that don’t sexualize children or are otherwise fucking gross.
You do have to do that to find a handful of titles that aren’t displaying blatant racism, misogyny, homophobia and/or transphobia. So, yeah, 90% of Hollywood films are in fact fucking gross.
How does it feel to intentionally make a dishonest false equivalence that you, I, and everyone reading knows is bullshit? I’d feel weird about it, even if I didn’t have a ton of self-respect.
Nah, it’s not BS. Hollywood just doesn’t glorify the same exact types of tripe, but they are just as hit and miss on moral purity. Especially if a vapid, brainless, and underdeveloped plot are considered bad. Then Hollywood might have anime beat on shit vs gold with its mountains of brainless executive-driven scripts…
I don’t know, you tell me how it feels.
Vast majority of anime have sexualization of minors tho
mainstream amine maybe, but there is A LOT of anime out there.
your comment is like saying that Hollywood only ever made super hero movies.
Nah… Maybe the vast majority of what you watch but there’s so many out there spanning decades.
Astro Boy. Samurai Pizza Cats. Ergo Proxy. Ninja Scroll. Akira. Ghost in the Shell. Cowboy Bebop. Battle Angel Alita. Yowamushi Pedal.
On and on it goes…
Vast majority? Eh, maybe. I watch a crazy amount of anime, and I’ve only had a few of the shows I’m interested in pull that, and typically I just don’t continue watching. The one trope that I really dislike that gets shoehorned into almost any anime is the over-infatuation of a sibling. I’m not talking incest or anything, but for some reason there’s almost always a character who is obsessed with their sister/brother, and it weirds me out. Not enough to stop watching if the anime is otherwise good, but definitely enough to stop watching if the anime is just soso.
Now, oversexualization of adult characters? That’s almost unavoidable. I tend to just ignore it, until I show an anime to someone who hasn’t seen anime before and then I’m hyper aware of it. That’s why when introducing people to anime I usually pick Death Note or Fullmetal Alchemist. These anime have a good dose of the anime goofiness, but very little fanservice, almost none.
If you’ve been keeping count, I’m curious to see your data.
Only if you go explicitly looking for it, yeah.
An no fan service/no upskirt/cleavage shots.
And no racist depictions.
I’m sorry sir we don’t make those
So basically Miyazaki movies
Definitely Monogatari or To Love-ru or KissxSis
I was going to say Knights of Sydonia, but in not sure all of those are strictly followed. At least there’s nothing overt. And a fantastic sci-fi to boot.
Edit: started re-watching on a lark and there’s A LOT more overt fan service than I remembered. At least it passes the Bechdel Test.
It’s lemonaid, I swear!
That doesn’t narrow it down as much as you think. What genre are you looking for?
fantasy isekai
Campfire cooking in another world and Welcome to demon school, Iruma-kun! are my main recommendations. There’s also some trash that would fit your criteria, but I wouldn’t recommend watching that (like that one slime tamer anime I can’t recall the title of). Also a dozen or so otome villainess reincarnation anime should fit your criteria, those are getting pretty popular now, though I haven’t watched any of the anime yet. Also some older stuff like Inuyasha might be up your alley, but honestly it’s been too long since I’ve seen them in their entirety, so I can’t really remember. Obviously Isekai is by far the most fan service-y theme in every possible way since most of it leans into power fantasy aspects to flatter the target demographic. In fact, if this was an actual honest question, I would recommend looking at the broader fantasy category, where there is a lot more variety and quality to be found.
I was mostly messing around, but thank you for the in depth write up. since we’re on the subject, what do you recommend for fantasy?
Frieren is the obvious recommendation, with character-driven storytelling focused on philosophical themes. It is genuinely one of the best shows I’ve seen and it’s rare that my expectations for a manga adaptation are blown out of the water so completely. Delicious in Dungeon is also excellent and has more of a focus on little details and creatures (and food, of course) with a very different approach to storytelling and a smaller scope.
I’m a big fan of the comedy and character design in Helck, even if the production quality of the anime can’t quite match up to my other recs. The manga is definitely visually superior. The contrast between the darker aspects of the story and the comedic delivery is pretty unique as well.
Mushishi is an episodic seinen anime focused on mythology and has some of the most beautiful background art, though it has more of a historical setting with supernatural fantasy elements. If virtual fantasy settings are allowed, then I recommend Shangri-La Frontier, which looks like Isekai at first glance, but thankfully is not. It’s also by far the most shonen anime on this list, but very entertaining.
Those are what comes to mind, but I’m sure I’m missing some obvious picks.
I’ve seen most of those (and read all of helck), except for mushishi and shangri la; I’ll add them to my list!
3gatsu no lion
Love and Peace enjoyer!
Ranking of kings, erased, the promised neverland, deca-dence, fullmetal alchemist, pokemon.
You might find some examples but the themes dont really lend to that.
If what you really wanted was of list of animes to avoid let’s start with Basilisk.
I think most of my list applies
Maybe without
Steins;Gate because of that scene where a guy gropes a girl (though everyone rightfully calls him out for being a creep)
Castlevania because sex scene
Akudama Drive because Doctor is heavily sexualized
Fullmetal Alchemist because Lust is Lust
Cowboy Bebop because Faye is kinda sexualized
Supercrooks because the intro (which is a bop and you should listen to it anyway)
Redline because of one scene with boobs
Ghost In The Shell because boobs
Niea_7 because the very racist Indian stereotype
Bubblegum Crisis because boobs
Read Or Die because cleavage
Cyberpunk Edgerunners because nudity (it’s Cyberpunk lol)
That looks like a lot of exceptions, but it’s only 12 out of 57 shows/movies
To be clear; nudity is fine, just not all-the-time, male-gaze shots put in akin to commercial breaks. Like Gurren Lagan; someone told me to try that one and ye gods the amount of times it was about boobs was ridiiiiiculous.
“Erm acturally shes canonically 100,000,000 years old, she just has the body of a 14 year old” -☝️🤓
I hate this, e.g. the pairing of Buffy with the 400-year-old Angel. Vampire romance stories are full of this shit and it’s so creepy.
Its pedophilia, quite blatantly it should be banned
Honestly the century old vampire entrancing pretty young women is a standard vampire story trope. See just about every vampire story.
The depiction of pedophilia is not against the law as far as I’m aware. Not in Canada at least. I don’t really think Buffy the Vampire Slayer should be banned.
I like the story of afrutera but the female lead is a child like several hundred year old girl. Male lead is a teen schoolboy and they bang… Also added a other female protagonist to the party that’s well endowed because boobs.
I like parts of this show but it is just super generic harem anime a lot of the time and not really that good.
Minor compliant:
Like with
spoiler
Annoint
being
spoiler
a new body for that one healer
I feel like they explained away “And we can reverse it so no harm done”, the protagonists win by miles every time and never have any setbacks.
Major complaint:
One time I literally paused the show, it was when they get this random dude in the desert.
He’s in the backseat of the truck and I paused it thinking “why is this scene wrong”
That’s like the only time I remember a guy ever being in the backseat, it’s like only ever been female love-interests that are part of his (not-a-)harem. They have so many characters (literally the whole class got isekai’d) but no one gets much screen time unless they’re Yue or a girl with a huge bust that gets added to the not-a-harem
Yeah I get you.
What I like is the fact that the protagonist has a underrated skill and ends up using his earth knowledge and creation skills to make fun shit.
Crafting with the combination of magic and tech is uncommon. Also under dog struggled to survive. He’s not OP out of the gate. Lost his arm early on and ate rotten meat to survive. Not sure I’d survive the shit he went through in the beginning.
It gets real generic and fan service-y after the setup. Also the “underage” vampire…
The setup is better than say, Solo Leveling, but once its done it gets a lot blander just like Solo Leveling.
Granted Solo Leveling has way more issues and is 90% carried by good animation.
I also think the protagonist from Arifureta has a really cool niche ability but it really is not used creatively. For all intents and purposes after the first dungeon his power is “gun” (with “gun” being flexible) and sometimes vehicles or a shield, all of which he got from first dungeon iirc.
It’s creative in a sense that he made firearms out of essentially just magic and knowledge but like… it never evolved past that. Hell I’d take a dust explosion every once in a while or something, thermite, acid. But the focus was “aura” and edginess rather than a compelling or clever protagonist.
That said I still plan to finish the newest season and will prob watch whatever comes out next. The aesthetic got me and ig thats the point
Maybe because I got into anime from Toonami and adult swim, but I never been subjected nor had an interest in this kind of anime. It always seems corny. Then again I’m more of a sci fi/space/giant robot kind of guy. The space colonies that are like biodome like cities are the coolest
Working in manga, the amount of titles I have to throw out of consideration for licensing because of these issues is insane
I find that if you want good anime recommendations, the recommendation must come from someone that doesn’t like anime. Anime fans tend to be really out of touch with certain baselines… like not being an open pervert.(I’ve seen that hentai hoodie, don’t lie.) Also people who don’t like anime can distinguish between “good for an anime” and “good”.
So I offer mine: Cyberpunk Edgerunners and Spirited Away.
Would Friren count? Romance of the two teens are age appropriate for them. And two dudes that are enamoured with older women, but I think that’s it.
- JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure (Please start on part one)
- Outlaw Star
- Trigun
- Cowboy Bebop
- Space Dandy
- Panty and Stocking with Garderbelt
- Mob Psycho 100
- Samurai Champloo
- Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood
Delicious in Dungeon! I think!
It’s got plenty of unhealthy relationships but addressing and untangling those relationships is like, the core of the plot so yeah I think it for sure passes.
Edit: Well actually, it does have one kind of contrived sauna scene between two of the women that feels very fan-servicy but is only a minute or so long. And the chest design of the main “monster” is arguably fan service too (There’s even a one-liner gag about it the first time it’s seen). But generally pretty tame and both of those moments are related to a crush one of the characters has.
I’ve been keeping my eye out for anime I can watch with my early teen daughter, and the intersection between good anime and anime that doesn’t require ample amounts of jiggle physics is fairly small.
The list is pretty much:
- Mashle
- Dragon Goes House Hunting
- Cells at Work
- Oishinbo - about a newspaper food reporter / gourmet
- Hinomaru Sumo - about a high-school sumo wrestler
- Hyouge Mono - about a Sengoku-era aesthete
- Warau Salesman - about a vengeful demon who punishes unhealthy urges
- Kaiji - about a gambling addict (who usually has to develop trust to survive)
- Onihei - about an Edo-period crime investigator
Mushishi
I don’t even know what’s on that one page
Delicious in Dungeon, Frieren, Hands off my Eizouken, and Bocchi the Rock probably
Edited to add Spy x Family, and I suppose Full Metal Alchemist: Brotherhood depending on if one feels Winry is sexualized.
Don’t worry, the number of people saying Frieren is a child is astounding
Although she appears to be very young, she was born into a long-lived race of elves and has lived for over a thousand years.
Oh, that old chestnut.
Not really, she really is just an old elf lady who looks like a young adult human. There’s nothing sexualised about her, and she’s not childlike. For example here she is next to a human child who becomes her apprentice:
And here she is talking to a human priest she was adventuring with 50 years ago, he’s grown old, she hasn’t changed:
And here she is head patting him, to give him reassurance that he did well after he confides that he never felt like he figured out how to be “a grown up” and just kept faking it while growing old:
The human child is Fern, and the old Priest Heiter picked her up after she was orphaned by a demon attack. Heiter asks Frieren to keep taking care of Fern after his death, and mentor her in magic.
It’s a really nice relationship driven story with an interesting storyline and magic system.
That’s a nice change of pace.
It’s not the 1000-year-old-who-looks-8 trope, it’s the 1000-year-old-who-looks-25 trope. She’s never portrayed as anything close to childlike.
As everyone else has said, she’s not a child-but-actually-ancient. The show is not about sex. It’s about mortality. I started watching it, and I want to continue, but it’s really depressing. I wasn’t in the right mood to keep going.
As far as I’m aware, there are absolutely no sexual undertones in the show. It’s sometimes funny, but it’s also pretty serious.
That trope bothers me too, but basically any anime female is going to look the same anywhere from 12 to 40 due to the way the features are stylized. So, looking for context clues is how you find the age of a character if it’s not explicitly said. Frieren is absolutely treated like, dresses like, and acts like an adult. She’s smaller than a human man, larger than a dwarf or human child, and while she’s infantalized a little by Fern it’s very much in the “how are you this old and still not taking responsibility for x” way.
Medalist
By the grace of gods
Non non biyori
Laid back camp
The ancient magus bride
New game
Himouto Umaru chan
In the land of Leadale
I’ve been killing slimes for 300 years
Kuma kuma kuma bear
Log horizon
Ranking of kings
Shadows house
Spy x family
Spice and Wolf
Ascendance of a bookworm
Girls und panzer
Girls Under Panzer put all the fan service into a separate series of short (under 5 mins) OVAs, so it’s avoidable but does exist …
Prince of tennis I think is clean
I feel like campfire cooking would fall into this as well
As much as I fuckin love Frieren they totally sexualize Fern when she’s under 18, though tbh it does feel less gross than usual considering how clothed she is & the weird relationship she has with her master
Frieren is suuuuuper jealous of Fern once she starts developing (with the show repeatedly using camera angles to show it) and Fern’s 18th birthday is in the later half of the first season. It was funny and rather realistic having been around girls that behaved like that, but as an adult man it was obvious the camera had a serious liking of staring at Fern’s chest whenever it could
I don’t remember Fern being sexualized or the camera lingering weirdly… Only that they give Frieren the typical chest envy, and have Fern fill out quite well in contrast, but that’s played as a joke I’d say.
But it could also be that I’m desensitized, having seen so much actual straight up fan service by now.
Hmm, I don’t remember that, so maybe I should rewatch it. I did name 4 when the illustration showed 3 haha.
My daughter (11) wants to watch more anime than what’s on Netflix. Are these good for girls that age, you’d guess?
Frieren is very violent. Amazing show, but definitely not for kids.
Bocchi has exactly one fanservice gag I can recall, but it’s a fairly tame one. Probably fine, the whole rest of the show has nothing else inappropriate I can think of. It is sub-only though, so I guess it really depends on whether she’s fine with reading subtitles?
Delicious in Dungeon, some violence but nothing gory, compared to Frieren I don’t think it’s too much.
I haven’t seen the other one that was mentioned so I can’t speak for it.
Honestly I’d say it depends on your daughter and what you think she can handle. I’m not a parent, so it’s hard for me to judge. Maybe screen a few episodes for yourself and decide what you think is appropriate?
Edit: Though just to add one more nomination for you, Little Witch Academia immediately comes to mind as a show I think would be absolutely perfect for that age.
Delicious has a bunch of fanservice but it’s all a joke and entirely focused on the dwarf character who is an old man.
Ooo yes Little Witch Academia is perfect
My dad let me rent an anime when I was 11 or 12. He was like “eh get whatever, it’s cartoons.”
I chose Ninja Scroll.
I turned out fine hahaha
For those unititiated, this anime movie includes a woman who is literally toxic to sleep with. Her body poisons any of her partner and they die shortly after.
This is confirmed with a scene where someone sleeps with her against her will. It is very not appropriate for a 12 year old.
It was absolutely not appropriate. Add to that the HORRIFICALLY gratuitous dismemberment, decapitation, and other gruesome acts of torture… the fucking honestly was the LEAST of the issue.
My little brain was like “whoaaaa… anime is bad ass!”
Then I moved on to stuff like Azumanga, Excel Saga, and Cat Soup. Yknow, the hardcore stuff.
My 11 year old sister’s recommendation for 11 year old girls: Sk8 the Infinity
It’s a campy sports anime about an underground skateboarding gang where people skate “to the death” (nobody dies).
It’s on Crunchyroll or wherever you get your anime ;)
If she has creative passions, she might love Hands Off My Eizouken. It’s a show about 3 high school girls who start their own anime club, and work on making a short animation for their first project. The girls are all just girls, weird fun gremlins, whacky passionate kids who want to make something cool together. I can’t remember anything problematic, they even managed to avoid sexualizing a bath episode, but you should screen it first obviously.
Bocchi would be great for any kid who has had or does have trouble fitting in due to being quirky or different, and has a similar premise of girls getting together to be creative but a different (but also good) vibe.
Agreeing with the other posters that Frieren wouldn’t be a good choice yet. Delicious in Dungeon might be, but that would be kid dependent and another you would want to screen first to see how you think she’d take it. The tone is mostly light and goofy but there are definitely some scary moments in there.
Missingno mentioned Little Witch Academia and I would absolutely second that, it’s cute and wholesome and definitely appropriate for kids
I mentioned it above, but i think you should check out “campfire cooking in a strange world with my unique skill.” There’s some monster violence but no people get hurt, for what that’s worth. Overall, thematically, it’s very light and comedic. There might be a few curse words but nothing crazy i don’t think…
i wasn’t watching it with the lens of how it would be for children so your mileage may vary, but it was very light-hearted and silly.
As an enjoyer of non-fanservice Animé, but knowing how different people around the world have different attitudes to appropriateness, I’m going to say that you’re going to have to carefully filter any list yourself.
For example, all of Girls Under Panzer is free from fan service / sexualization, (apart from the short OVAs which are nothing but that stuff) … but some people don’t like it’s playful attitude to WW2 history.
SuperCub is another series that features zero sexualisation, but contains themes around depression, isolation, and struggling with interpersonal relationships.
Gundam: The Witch from Mercury, again no sexualization but features fighting against patriarchal systems and a love story of lesbanins.
It’s possible that none of these are appropriate for your daughter, when I was 11 I would have devoured them and come back for more.
Then there’s stuff like Born in Abyss which looks like a cutesy kids adventure but then descends into multiple layers of horror … so, tread carefully.
Eizouken, absolutely
Maybe Saihate No Paladin, Nichijou, and Azumanga Daioh as well.
I love Azumanga, but Nichijou might be one of my favorites of all time. It’s got Azumanga vibes but cranks everything up to 100.
deleted by creator
This is the first time I see someone other than me mention Eizouken. One of my favorite anime
It’s so good! It’s one of my absolute favorites too. The highschool girls are just all believable and grounded characters with real personalities and quirks. The whole thing is really well done.
How you gonna leave out Full Metal Alchemist?
It’s a great show but Winry does wear unnecessarily revealing clothes. I guess a big deal isn’t made out of it. The one that’s a major omission is Spy X Family actually
She’s not sexualized but she wears a crop top thing. “Oh, the audacity”
She was specifically drawn that way, it’s not like it was an accident. I acknowledge in her case it’s subjective though because I can’t remember any gratuitous angles and they don’t really focus on it.
You … DO realize that kind of judgement is merely a slightly more benign version of the same misogyny as the, “look what she was wearing! She was asking for it” type of thinking, right…? You realize at least some women choose to look pretty without wanting to be oggled or abused, right?
Women with large breasts and slim frames just exist as human beings in reality, but when it’s drawn in anime it’s a choice. Having the “camera” focus on upskirt shots or side boob is a choice. Animating boob bounce is a choice. So a 15 year old depicted in micro skirts and a bandeau, that has a bath scene and a scene where she takes her top off is a choice. This is in the context of a thread talking about anime sexualizing minors. If Winry was a living, breathing girl, she could make those choices herself, in the privacy of her own life, but this is an anime character where she was specifically drawn that way in an industry that is overwhelmingly male dominated. FMA:B IS a very good show, and Winry is a real character with actual traits and a personality, but pretending that all of these design and story decisions weren’t made on purpose by people who almost certainly were adult men is naive.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aAOegc0ezGk&pp=ygUQd2lucnkgYmF0aCBzY2VuZdIHCQmNCQGHKiGM7w%3D%3D
Skullface Bookseller Honda-san is very respectable, though completely bonkers.
Oh no, im almost out of good anime :c
Full Metal Alchemist brotherhood, maybe.
Yup it’s only one I can think of in the good animes that doesn’t glorify unhealthy relationships.
Them learning to let go of their mom was good. Very rare.
Winry is kinda sexualised, but only mildly, and not often
Just the one weird bathtub scene.
Well, and that time she almost accidentally flashes Ed, but they’re practically dating by that point, they just haven’t come to terms with it yet.
How you got this many replies without a single mention of Cowboy Bebop is beyond me.
I love Cowboy Bebop but that series is one giant unhealthy relationship.
I don’t think it glorifies unhealthy relationships but it definitely features them
It also depicts racial minorities often kinda poorly, at least artistically. It’s been a while though. I don’t remember it treating them badly plotwise, just made some of them look like caricatures.
madoka is great too but same problem lmao
Just go with Trigun.
Vash & Knives have an unhealthy relationship, because of Rem.
Eh, they exist. You’ve got classics like Death Note and more recent stuff like Frieren. It’s definitely a short list though.
All the classics like the Ghibli stuff. Lots of more serious stuff doesnt have those issues either like Vinland Saga or Attack on Titan. Also cute stuff like Yuru Camp.
It’s not that short, you just need to pick a genre different from shounen if you don’t like fanservice. Also many older shounen are good, think about the Digimon, Pokémon and Gundam franchises to name a few famous ones.
Sadly, Frieren justifies genocide against creatures with free will and intelligence.
And so does Lord of the Rings. It’s fantasy, having obviously good people and obviously bad people you kill without remorse is part of the genre.
Yes, and that is exactly the moral dilemma Tolkien had. He believed that killing orcs are wrong unless there is a very good reason, so he would have thought it was wrong to kill demons unless there is a very good reason.
I think the orcs/demons being hell-bent on killing humans is a sufficiently good reason.
Tolkien disagrees with you.
I don’t think he does. The whole point of Sauron trying to enslave Middle Earth is exactly the justification you need for the mass slaughter of the “enemy”. If the orcs were spending the days idly farming and smoking hobbit pipes, you would have a whole other argument against genocide.
Creatures with free will and intelligence who evolved those capabilities (and speech) with the sole purpose of being better at hunting humans.
Creatures with free will and intelligence who eat humans. Not because they need to eat humans, mind, they’re perfectly fine eating other things, but because they genetically like to kill and eat humans.
Creatures with free will and intelligence who are biologically incapable of feeling emotions like empathy, sympathy, guilt, or remorse. Seriously, some have spent centuries trying to learn how to feel them, and have failed.
Creatures with free will and intelligence who’ll be the first to admit that they’re better described as savage deceitful beasts, and that it’d be foolish and suicidal to trust them as far as you can throw them.
And, that said, Frieren the character advocates (with extremely good evidence backed reason) for their genocide, but the book and the authors don’t seem to do the same thing.
There’s plenty of characters that try to get along with demons, or trust them (and often pay dearly for it), and plenty of chapters where we see the demons’ point of view and can’t fail but to somewhat empathize with them, even if they’d be unable to reciprocate.
At no point do the book or the authors try to make the readers hate demons. They make us fear them, sure, but mostly they make us feel empathy and pity for them.
Hell, the fourth fan favourite character is a demon (and what a fantastic character it is).
(Granted, the third are the mimics, but still.)
I had never heard of this show before today but what you just described makes it sound cool as fuck, I’m gonna check it out now
Couple tidbits before you get to it:
- The first four episodes were released at once and it’s recommended to watch them in one sitting.
- While season 1 has some great demon characters (and a lot of great non-demon ones), that fourth fan favourite one won’t show up until season 2, which is currently in production and is expected to come out in January 2026.
Why is that sad? The depiction of demons as creatures that are incapable of empathy and exploit human compassion as an evolutionary strategy is interesting and makes for good drama and moral conflicts in the show. I’m honestly tired of the standard plot about demons just being misunderstood poor little babies that humans bully for seemingly no reason. I understand why that is a popular theme - it resonates with most of our own history after all, but it’s been done to absolute death.
They are shown to have morality and free will, so there are some who can follow and believe our morality. Every time Frieren fires first she is in the wrong.
I would also enjoy that kind of story, but then the author wanted to make demons interesting and gave them free will and morality. This is what ruins the show for me.
They do have free will but where have you seen any depiction of morality as humans understand it? You also need to understand that a characters thoughts and actions are up to your own interpretation and do not necessarily reflect the authors opinions. Even if I were to disagree with Frieren the character as strongly as you seem to, then it still wouldn’t detract from my enjoyment of the show. I don’t need my entertainment to regurgitate my own morals to me.
The morality I speak of is the one of hierarchy and magical power. The fact that they have both a moral system and free will means that they can chose to adopt another moral system. Frieren can’t know if every demon follows the same system.
That’s not a moral system, that’s mere survival instinct.
A (Frieren’s world) demon will always do what best serves their own interests; if a more powerful demon tells them to do something they’ll do it out of pure self preservation, and bide their time until they can be the one on top, or at least get away and carry on on their own.
No morality is involved, because morality as a concept (as we humans understand it) is so alien to them as colours to someone born blind.
Frieren has known many demons, including Macht. She has studied them for a thousand years. She can and does know.
By definition, if a demon learned how to feel empathy, or compassion, or anything like that, it would no longer be a demon.
But the point is moot, because it’s been demonstrated that they biologically can’t feel those emotions, even if they wanted to.
You either haven’t watched or are making up headcanon to justify your opinion.
What disagreement do you have with what I’ve said? I’ve watched the anime and even read through the manga, up to when they defeat the golden demon.
Other people have already provides detailed examples, while you have not, in this thread AND one 2 weeks ago. I don’t see any point in arguing with you because you’ve clearly decided you don’t like the show and that’s ok, but going on every thread where frieren comes up and insisting it’s glorifying actual human genocide is ridiculous and exhausting.
you dropped this, /s
Sorry to say this, but this a genuine belief I have that makes me unable to enjoy Frieren :(
I hope that the writer solves this conundrum by either making it clear that demons don’t have free will, or make it so that Frieren doesn’t want to commit a genocide.
Frieren’s emotions on the matter are addressed in episode 7.
Episode 7 and 8
The demons acted as peace envoys.
Its turns out that was a lie to get the humans to turn off the magic force field so they could attack with their demon armies.
Frieren’s indifference to killing demons is shown to be a necessity for survival.
It can be a bit hard to wrap our heads around. Humans don’t really face natural predators anymore, so it can be tough for many of us to imagine the kill or get eaten life style.
Imagine if man-eating spiders started to talk to us, transformed to look like us and became our friends only so we’d let our guard down and open the door to the their spider army. Humans squash bugs indifferently all the time. To Frieren, demons are man-eating bugs that need squashing.
As for free will, the demons we see do seem have free will, which they use to kill humans, again its a kill or be killed world. It’s about survival, not a senseless eradication of a group of people.
Qual from ep2 seemed like a nice guy, until you remember he invited the killing spell is being executed for the mass-muder of humans, 80 years in the past.
If I, a known child killer, fails to kill a child, and that child grows up to become Hitler. I am then not justified in the murder I attempted.
As long as the demons have free will Frieren will always be in the wrong for shooting first.
If Frieren doesn’t kill the demons, the demons will kill them. The difference between child Hitler and a demon, is that Frieren knows what the demon will do in the future, just like we know what happens when you release a hungry lion in a room full of antalope.
Frieren might be shooting first in the battle, but the demons shot first in the war.
The demons use human sympathy to gain trust and it works. You feel for them, you want to protect them, may even be attracted to them, and give them a chance and that’s their whole stick. They’re just hungry lions that transformed to look like their prey.
Hitler, and the Nazis, had believed that certain groups of people were inferior and a that only a superior race should exist. So what did the rest of the world do? Those that could fight, fought back to survive and protect those that couldn’t.
If we’re going to compare roles; Demon king is Hitler, demons are the Nazi forces, Frieren and her party are the allied forces. In the show Frieren is defeating the remnants of an active terrorist cell following in the footsteps of the demon king/Hitler.
If you try to put Frieren in the Hitler role, it doesnt make sense. She doesn’t go from town to town murdering anything that’s not an elf. She’s not gaining followers to take over the kingdoms.
You could call Frieren racist towards demons; but if a group murdered your entire village, and you watch them do it to countless others over a thousand years, never meeting a “nice” demon, you’d provably learn to shoot first too.
As someone who hasn’t watched frieren, this seems more like a war than a genocide
Yes, it is a war. Almost all demons they meet (and kill) are soldiers. But Frieren’s philosophy is one of total annihilation. She wants to kill all demons, no matter if they’ve killed or not.
The problem is that the author seems to want to make this philosophy the morally just one in universe while at the same time giving demons the ability to chose if they want to kill or not. I’m more irritated at the author for not thinking things through.
Watch season 2 when it comes out. Probably the second half. The Macht flashbacks.
Somewhat spoily details.
You’ll get the point of view of a demon trying his best to become something that can coexist with humans without one of the two having to go extinct. And failing, because such is the nature of demons in Frieren’s world.
Frieren reminds me of my readings about the 19th century Texas Rangers (see Cult of Glory (2020) by Doug J. Swanson) and how Native Americans were literally seen as vermin to be exterminated, even if they assisted in exterminating other indigenous. In real life, a lack of communication and 15th century epidemics divided indigenous peoples who could have otherwise defended their sovereignty; once indigenous children learned the conquering host people’s language (English) and affirmative action applied to close egregious wealth gaps, indigenous people have proved to be ordinary people with another skin color (evidence: me, a member of the Navajo Nation). Frieren, in contrast, portrays a demon child as being irredeemably evil even though they learn the host language and are given second chances and extra attention (by the Himmel); the author implies there is some cognitive divide due to demons being solitary creatures who raise and teach themselves from a very early age (presumably much earlier than the failed experiment Himmel performed); however, that subtlety isn’t emphasized and demons are more akin to starfish aliens than people.
Overall, I think provoking controversy and discussion around this point is valuable because it invites people to debate the nature of Otherness. In which ways can a person be different enough before they stop being people? What exactly are the differences between “person” and “beast”? Is focusing on those differences the root cause of genocide? Do we hesitate to relax the requirements to be considered a person because we dislike the economic consequences? (e.g. the horror of teaching factory farmed animals to speak)
I personally consider demons in Frieren analogous to indigenous before colonizing powers, albeit sustained by their long life spans and tendency to independently discover powerful technology (magic). I doubt the author is thinking very hard along these lines, and so fear they will fall back on tried and true story patterns in which animalistic heathens are purged to make way for civilization. But I hope to be surprised.
Thank you, that’s a very nice writeup. I agree with you that the author probably isn’t thinking as hard as, for example Tolkien did with his orcs. However, I wouldn’t compare the demons in Frieren to indigenous people in america. It’s clear that many demons are really violent, however, even if a lot, or even a majority, of demons are evil, we can’t condem their entire race.
We’ve seen the point of view of demons. They’re not human, or human analogues, in any way, shape, or form.
They just look and act like humans, as a form of predatory camouflage.
They’re a perfect example of blue and orange morality (warning, TV Tropes link, abandon all hope ye who enters here).
We’ve seen (in the manga) a demon spend centuries doing his best to learn how to experience empathy, sympathy, or guilt, so he and other demons can become something that can coexist with humans without one or both of them inevitably ending up extinct.
He failed.
There’s no possible long term future in Frieren’s world where both humans and demons exist, unless demons change so fundamentally that they stop being demons (which would be a paradox of sorts, as real demons would then be extinct).
Demons have one choice: remain true to their nature and eat or exterminate all humans, or cease to be.
Humans have one choice: let themselves be exterminated, or exterminate all demons.
No side is committing genocide, they’re just fighting for their own survival, in a world that gives them no other option.
I do think there are valuable conversations to be had about the concept of a creature that is considered ontologically evil and wholly irredeemable.
But I also think reducing that conversation to “Frieren bad” sucks.
You’ve never seen Spice and Wolf? Chihayafuru? Hibike! Euphonium? Mushishi? Samurai Champloo? Death Note? Inferno Cop?
Okay but Death Note is nothing but unhealthy relationships
I’m going to take a potato chip… AND EAT IT!!1!
Dunno, sounds about right to me.
Full metal Alchemist is my bet.
Otherwise I know a lot of good animes but they tend to glorify unhealthy relationships looks at the space cowboy murdering people.
Monster.
Cory in the House?
Greatest anime ever
Berserk
The entire plot revolves around Guts’ unhealthy relationship with Griffith. And there are 2 underage looking characters that want to steal Guts from him.
I love Berserk but uh Schierke having a weird crush on Guts definitely treads on the sexualizing-young-characters trope
Jojo?
Just gonna forget about the rape ape are we?
The one enemy that appears briefly before getting beaten up into oblivion?
I agree that a lot of dark stuff happens in Jojo (heck, the protagonist of the 5th saga is a mafia boss), maybe it’s best for mature audiences.
I think I blocked that out of my mind. Why did you have to remind me?
Monster was pretty good. 🤷♀️
EDIT Shit someone already did that one.
Uh.
Uh!
Shigurui didn’t have any weird relationship shit I don’t think??
Attack on Titan doesn’t have any of the like underage stuff, though basically the whole show is based around a toxic relationship
I enjoyed Attack on Titan, but halfway through I realized I could literally not root for any of its characters. And by the end, I hated almost all of them.
It was basically “where the hell are they going with that story” more than anything. But it was worth it.
Yeah who by the end you can actually root for? Jean and conney?
Those would be the two I’d choose if I had to, probably.
Silent voice, your name, weathering with you and everything from studio ghibli (I personally love porco rosso)
Eden of the East I think fits. There’s definitely unhealthy relationships, but they’re not glorified by any means, quite the opposite in fact.
One of my favs personally, short enough to jump in and finish easily as well for new viewers.
