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oh, why?
the US-Canadian border has been one of, if not the, most peaceful borders in the entire world.
the most peaceful and mutually beneficial border on Earth.
Tell me your views are extremely America-centric without telling me.
The only way you can have those views is if you know nothing about the EU at all.
thats what you take issue with…? jfc
tell me you are dense without saying it… you are rigjt, we should have statistaically and accurately compared every single border relationship tonsee if this was true… i mean come the fuck on, it has been one of the most peaceful borders. Outrage here is ridiculousThe US and Canada haven’t fought since 1812. Which European border of a major super power has a longer history of being close allies?
The UK and Scotland shouldn’t count because Scotland isn’t a sovereign country, they are a state of the UK that has lied about retaining their sovereignty for 500 years (which is why they have to beg England for permission to even hold an independece referendum)
Spain and France shouldn’t count because Spain worked with the Nazis in ww2 and wouldn’t help France.
Switzerland? Apart from a bit of aerial bombing during WWII it’s been a pretty peaceful border since that time Napoleon invaded.
I considered that, but Switzerland was under seige by fascists on 3 fronts from 1939 to 1944 (the Nazis pressured the French-Swiss border and Italian fascists pressured the Italian-Swiss border)
The US and Canada haven’t fought since 1812. Which European border of a major super power has a longer history of being close allies?
What’s the definition of “being a close ally”? You’re using the date of Canada and USA last conflict, but for Spain and France you’re using political alignment.
I think Portugal and Spain also make a good candidate if we’re looking back only until the early 1800’s. The border itself had a few changes but they were peaceful IIRC, the last conflict was 1801?
On a separate note, the quote says has been the most peaceful and beneficial, so it’s not so much as a matter of peaceful for the longest time. Even if EU borders weren’t peaceful way back, quite a few of them are so peaceful nowadays that they barely register as existing. In terms of most beneficial, I’m not sure how to analyze that.
Quite a surprising one here: I think the Norwegian/russian border can actually match that. I believe Norway is the only country neighbouring russia that has never been invaded by them (sans WWII, where they invaded Nazi-occupied Norway and willingly left after the Axis was defeated).
I also think the Norwegian/Danish border has been conflict-free for some hundred years (to be fair, we were in a union for ≈450 years ending in 1814). We’ve had some skirmishes with the Swedes throughout the years, but I believe the last one was in 1814.
Norway and Denmark don’t have a land border. Thus including alliances in general the Anglo-Portuguese one dates back to 1373, with only 60 years interruption when Portugal was in dynastic union with Spain which in modern terms could be called an occupation.
…and this isn’t just a technicality with both nations being big on seafaring you can consider the water between them a highway, French cannons nonwithstanding.
I’m not quite sure if you’re disregarding the fact that Norway and Denmark haven’t had a war for hundreds of years because they don’t share a land border? In any case i can point out that there were plenty of Norwegian-Danish hostilities before the union time. With both Norway and Denmark being big on seafaring, the waters between Norway and Denmark have historically been seen much more as a highway (as you say about the Anglo-Portuguese waters) than anything else.
The distance is shorter though, so I would rather compare the Norwegian-Danish border to the Anglo-French border, and the lack of a land border there hasn’t really prevented any wars.
Norway occupied parts of Greenland for a while, 1931-1933, I’d call that an act of aggression against Denmark and thus a war even if it was ultimately resolved peacefully and the claim didn’t concern the Danish mainlands.
I had forgotten about that! However: That wasn’t sanctioned by the government though if I remember correctly, it was done by civilians that requested governmental military support which was refused.
“In the last 100 years”… European borders were not peaceful for that long
To be fair, historically speaking, Europe’s borders have been all but peaceful.
Fair, but on March 26 the initial Schengen-Borders will have been basically nonexistent for 30 years.
Canada and the US have been close allies for 200 years. The last time they fought was 1812 Edit: I was wrong, we have only been close allies for 130 years
Not 200 years. The last major conflict was the War of 1812 but relations weren’t rosy until the Great Rapprochement starting around 1895. The period inbetween saw the Fenian Raids, Patriots’ War, Britain’s tacit support of the Confederacy and the Trent Affair, and disputes around the Oregon Country and Alaska border. Hell, Confederation happened mostly because of fears of the US’s growing power after its civil war.
It has been detrimental to the many first nations whose lands have been divided.
You’re goddamn right I’m furious.
And no less furious at the weak-kneed Democrats who do nothing as their own country is ripped from them by a clown. “Oh sorry; we’ll try again in 4 years” they say. Fuck your thoughts and prayers, how about do something. You won’t get a free election in 4 years, dummies.
Oh yeah, I realize you’re super busy and with your sportsball games and your reality TV marathons. Your inaction today will haunt your future.
And no this isn’t a call to action or a cry for help. We’re going to be just fine. You’re the ones who have to live there, and live with yourselves knowing you did nothing.
Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio Cortez are heading out to states to lead town halls after this most recent budget passing.
This is what Democrats should be doing: preparing for 2028 by reaching out to people now, or at the very least educating them on what’s happening and what might happen in the other 46 months (or more…) of Trump’s second presidency.
I expect the authoritarian posturing and nationalism will be successful inside America as the world unites against them. And that any further hopes they have of opposition will be strangled by increasing anti-democratic measures as time goes on. That’s the playbook that has been successful elsewhere and I see no basis for believing in American exceptionalism here.
Will be extremely happy to be wrong on this, but I can’t see a world where waiting until 2028 works out for Democrats.
The Democrats have no power in the US now. They still hold a few governorships, but the GOP has complete control of the US federal government and that’s all that matters on the international scene.
It’s a distinctly American thing to blame the Democrats for anything the government does even when they don’t control the government. Then they wonder why the Democrats struggle to win elections even against insane GOP candidates like Trump.
In what other country is the opposition party blamed for what the governing party is doing? Only in America.
Things are the way they are in the US because people voted for it. The Democrats aren’t doing anything because anything they do now would be purely performative and have no effect. They’re a political party, not a revolutionary movement. They aren’t doing anything until the next election (if there is one!) because that’s how it works with political parties in a democracy.
It would be the same in Canada. If Pollievre got a majority and brought in Elon Musk to kill the government there would be nothing the Liberals, NDP, or any other party could do. That’s why it’s important to vote and vote wisely.
And no less furious at the weak-kneed Democrats who do nothing as their own country is ripped from them by a clown.
Republican voters enabled another trump dictatorship, not “democrats”.
Their vote made it so that “democrats” have no power in the house, the senate, the office of the presidency, the supreme court, or the dozens of federal agencies that are now being gutted.
Blame them. Blame only them for voting the way they did, because the outcome is exactly what they voted for.
No, fuck this. The best analogy I’ve seen is that the republicans are a school shooter, and the democrats are the uvalde police department. I’m not going to forgive a group thst somehow becomes utterly ineffectual any time they’re needed. This has been brewing for decades. If the democrats were just tooooooooo weak to do anything to prevent it in all that time, what fucking use are they?
That’s like blaming firefighters for not being able to put out fires as fast as arsonists can set them.
Voters are the only reason why Trump is still here. Sure, you can say that democratic representatives could/should be doing more, but aren’t we way past that point now? This is trump’s second term… voters want him in power. As fucking stupid as that is.
It’s more like blaming city council because they refuse to pass any regulations that might reduce the number of fires, because it would hurt their donors in the construction industry.
We are way past the point where democrats could have done anything, and we arrived here because all through my almost fifty year lifetime and before, people on the left have been warning them about the US’s decline towards fascism, the takeover of their media and the dominance of voter suppression, and they’ve chosen to never take any action to stop it. I fail to see why they should escape blame now, after making the bed they are lying in.
That’s like blaming firefighters for not being able to put out fires as fast as arsonists can set them.
Sure, in the sense that the neoliberals are Marcus Licinius Crassus in this analogy.
explanation
Marcus Crassus became the richest man in Rome partly through real estate. He created the first fire department in Rome. Sometimes he paid arsonists to set fire to a house and then he would wait around the corner with his fire fighters. When the fire was underway, Crassus and his men would come running to the rescue. But before they would put out the fire, Crassus would negotiate with the owner. How much was he willing to sell the house for? If the owner found this unreasonable, Crassus would patiently wait as the fire consumed the building. As time passed, the price for the house went down. Usually, the owner would decide to get at least something for his house. At that point, the fire department would put out the fire. Then Crassus would have the lot cleared and a tenement building put up.
– Daily Life in Ancient Rome by Dupont p.54
explanation
Dude, that is FUCKED UP. Mobster racketeering in ancient times!
I see your point of view!
That’s like blaming firefighters for not being able to put out fires as fast as arsonists can set them.
No, that’s a bad analogy because the firefighters are trying to put out the fires to the best of their ability. The Democrats aren’t doing shit, and in some cases siding with the fascists.
It was your fellow man that did this, you really have to face that fact. People will still chose to be dumb and ignorant, and Russia really played into that. Russia has had a singular leadership for the last 30 or so years. No flip-flopping no new fresh faces a singular purpose and that is the destruction of America
of course? All these people are my fellow man. I have no idea what your point is. I don’t think aliens did it.
Republican voters got them elected, Democrats are standing by doing nothing as their country is ruined.
There are no attempts to secede, there are no wide-scale protests or strikes. Their democracy falls while they sit back and fret, laughing along with Jon Stewart and smug in their knowledge they are better that Republicans. For all their much-touted “second amendment” they are idle as a tyrant solidifies power.
I do blame Republican for their actions. But I blame Democrats for their inaction. I’m furious because what I see in them I recognize in myself – it’s a challenge for me to not be complacent and fight for my own country. Because if we coast like they do, we will suffer the same fate.
But I blame Democrats for their inaction.
I don’t deny that much more could have been/could be done. But look at the optics on how this would make trump even stronger:
If you had a democratically elected president who’s being shut down by the minority party, which could be seen as “going against what the people voted for”, and once again trying to “steal the election”. It would justify a horrific ramping up of his rhetoric, and seeing how he released 1500 criminals who were on his side, there would be no stopping domestic (right-wing) terrorists from targeting “democrats”.
In fairness, this timeline is so FUBAR, especially when coming off such a strong economy, highly respected presidencies from Obama and Biden, and relative peace with nearly all allies. In just a few months, Trump and Musk have been undoing hundreds of years of progress, which is unprecedented so say the least.
The States, and the world, are in such uncharted territories right now.
You do realize what you’re saying, right?
You’re saying it would be a tragedy of optics to try to stop a dictator from seizing power. That if democrats do nothing they can avoid being targeted in the short term, while Trump chases after others.
Yes. This specific attitude is what I’m furious about. And I’m going to work my damnedest to stop it happening here in my country.
Their vote made it so that “democrats” have no power in the house, the senate, the office of the presidency, the supreme court, or the dozens of federal agencies that are now being gutted.
Actually, today Senate Republicans needed help from the Democrats to pass a bill to keep the government funded. And 10 Democrats helped them, including Minority Leader Chuck Schumer.
You may not be able to say that Trump’s actions towards Canada specifically could be predicted in any detail but there was an absurd amount of evidence that he would be erratic, self-serving, and antagonistic towards allies in general. We still elected him. There’s tons of reasons for that and many of us want to latch on to some of them in order to absolve ourselves of individual responsibility for this shitshow, but other countries don’t give a fuck about any of those reasons and we should not expect them to.
If you’re an American, you own this administration in the eyes of the world and that’s exactly how it should be. In fact, I would argue that changing course is not possible until the vast majority of us accept that fact and let it inform our actions going forward.
It doesn’t matter who’s to blame. The question is where is your nation going, and what are you going to do about it? Are you going to let all the terrible things happen because “it’s the other guys’ fault”?
What solutions do you propose for the majority of the population who are struggling to get by and who can’t even take time off work to protest or contact their local representatives? That’s the reality Americans are facing. Those with the most to lose are in the worst position to fight back.
Any protections that people once had are being stripped away each day. I mean, calling it illegal to boycott Tesla? Calling actual protesters domestic terrorists while hailing those who stormed the capital ad heroes?
The situation looks grim for Americans.
What about the democrats that did something how should they feel?
Bluntly, what have you done for me lately?
What Democrats did is a meaningless platitude.
What are all of you doing right now?
What the fuck should we do with your “we did our part”?
Simply put, You the People cannot be trusted to keep fascism at bay.
If you are ever allowed to vote in a free election again, one third of you will vote for more of this bullshit, and one third of you will refuse to vote.
Collectively, you are untrustworthy.
You the People cannot be trusted to keep fascism at bay.
Of course they can’t. The founding mythology? The military fluffing? The pervasive propaganda over American exceptionalism?
It’s a fascist country. It just doesn’t always have a totalitarian government.
Frankly I think the only thing that’d give me faith in my countrymen would be learning there’s actually truth to Musk/the repubs at large rigging the election, and that’s a long shot.
If the goal is to get people engaged, does telling them they’re worthless and untrustworthy actually help? I get the anger, but if you want people to step up, what’s the strategy beyond just calling them dummies?
Hi, fellow American here. You seem to need to understand some things, so I’m here to educate you.
We’ve been gently coddling the conservatives into being better for decades. Their response to this is to laugh at you and then double down on whatever horrible shit they’ve decided is their culture war target today. Gentle reminders that they’re actively working toward the destruction of society does nothing to them. In many cases it actively galvanizes them even more toward their opinions.
So I’m fucking done coddling. Some of my friends and my family are going to die because of things they’ve gleefully voted for and then tried to throw in my face after. My nation is in flames because of what they’ve done. The entire world is falling to authoritarian fascism because of what they’ve done.
So fuck 'em. If you’re a horrid piece of shit then I’m going to tell you that you’re a horrid piece of shit. You have the option to change your ways or go fuck off and die, doesn’t matter one bit to me. But I’m sick and tired of trying to meet someone halfway when their “halfway” is “well maybe we only exterminate half of the blacks and gays and we can just enslave the rest of them?”
In short: Every single conservative “republican” that still idenitifes as such in the modern day is a piece of shit scum human being, who is directly responsible for the hellhole we find ourselves in, and if they know what’s good for them they better be afraid to show their face around me and mine. I’m tired of trying to “play nice” with oppressors. I now flat refuse to put up with their existence. These people have threatened the life and livelihood of my family and others close to me that I love and care about, continue to do so, and show not only a lack of empathy but a sick, gleeful, sadistic joy in the idea that my mother can no longer get her medications or that school children will kill themselves or their peers. I’m tired of subsidizing their idiocy and trying to claw progress out of their hateful, regressive policies. I’m tired of having to explain to people why all persons should have equal rights. I’m tired of feeling threatened in public areas by skinheaded fucks with assault rifles. I’m tired of worrying for my partner’s safety when they leave for work.
Conservatives have, to date, done nothing whatsoever of benefit to anyone but themselves, ever, and I’m tired of having to act like they are rational actors. They are not. They are greedy, spiteful, selfish fucks, they do not have reasonable viewpoints, and I’m tired of having to act like they do. You should be too. The gentle coddling of such ridiculous viewpoints because “all opinions matter!” has directly led us to our two-party travesty and the casual ignoring of all norms or laws by Trump and Co. These people need to be told when their opinions are stupid and wrong and we’ve been very, very long overdue in doing that. Failure to do so leads to - drumroll - take a look around outside.
So yeah. Our Canadian friend here is right. The anger is very long overdue. Fact is, conservatives are untrustworthy and worthless and I don’t actually care if telling them that helps them or not. We’ve tried to help them, repeatedly, and been pushed away and ridiculed for it time and time again. So it’s time to speak a language that they understand.
You said you were here to “educate” me, but what you really did was vent anger and insult an entire group of people. Education means offering insight, a path forward, or at least an argument that changes minds. What you provided was raw frustration, which I understand… but let’s be clear, that’s not education.
If your goal is to express rage, you’ve done that. If your goal is to actually fight back against the forces you’re angry at, then I have to ask: what’s your strategy? Telling people they’re scum and irredeemable might feel cathartic, but what does it accomplish? Are you trying to mobilize people or just burn bridges?
History shows that lasting change happens when people organize, persuade, and build coalitions. That doesn’t mean ‘coddling’ extremists, but it does mean recognizing that not everyone who votes a certain way is beyond reason. Writing off everyone as an enemy is how you lose, and I assume you don’t want to lose.
So, if you’re here to educate, then educate: What’s your actual plan? What do you believe works? Because if your only message is ‘hate them all, there’s no hope’ then you’re not fighting fascism, you’re just surrendering to it with a different kind of rage.
For what it’s worth, I do want change, and I am angry too. But anger without strategy doesn’t fix anything. If venting is all that matters to you, then we have nothing more to discuss.
History shows that lasting change happens when people organize, persuade, and build coalitions. That doesn’t mean ‘coddling’ extremists, but it does mean recognizing that not everyone who votes a certain way is beyond reason. Writing off everyone as an enemy is how you lose, and I assume you don’t want to lose.
The problem is we have two groups of people remaining in support of conservatives in the United States. We have the unapologetically evil; and this group will not be reached. Then we have the irreparably stupid. This group is much larger, and capable of reform, but is clearly so incapable of higher level reasoning that they can’t recognize that they have been voting against their own best interests time and time again, despite everyone in the left screaming at the top of their lungs.
Donald trump has made it apparent that the only way to reach these morons is through their emotions. We clearly cannot appeal to their sense of empathy, so we will make them feel a shame so deep they cannot hide from it.
No I was absolutely being a angry dickhead and that’s totally fair. Those are my true feelings though, and to my best judgment logical ones. What do you do when you are faced with a person you can’t reason with? Historically speaking, the only real way to deal with it is to imprison them or kill them. I don’t want us to get to that state. I just feel like we’re being driven towards it. I find the world that we exist in now to be utterly absurd with these sorts of people at the wheel and I will no longer tolerate those who support them. We’re bringing punching Nazis back.
I hear guillotines are cheap to make. I’m down to bring those back too.
If they took action and failed I don’t hold anything against them. It’s better to try and fail than not try at all.
Unfortunately the scale of what’s happening right now is existential, so they find themselves in the crossfire.
Not a single american voted for THIS. Trump didn’t give any indication he was going to do this. This is ALL his doing. As far as you guys pushing americans to strap up, 1. Our quality if life has yet to be affected, when that happens, more people will act. 2. As for people like myself, I have a bi daughter, if and when the time comes for me to open up the armory, I will but right now, just.acting will ruin all of our lives. 3. I have worked extremely hard for my entire life, I just.got a house, reached my career goal and my lifes goal of making 6 figures.I’m not upper.class, but I’ve come from poverty and I’m not throwing that away. 4. WHEN things get bad or if trump actually acted on trying to take over.canada, more than half of.us would fight with you, but trump is.full of shit. Just.don’t buy.american shit.and.move on with your lives. We got you. Shit will change, but don’t expect me to pull the strap over mediocrity and toothless threats.
With all due respect, did you guys all forget about 2016 to 2020? Did you forget about Jan 6th?
I get that there were other issues to worry about during the election, but Project 2025 was out inthe open, it was in the press, democrats talked about it.
I do not believe for a second that half of you would show up to fight for Canada. How would you actually do that? American’s aren’t even fighting for themselves as DOGE is cutting out your entire government.
Trump just dumped the military lawyers and the top brass who won’t swear fealty.
He’s having his goverment draw up invasion plans for Panama, and do you really expect us to think he’s not doing the same for Canada and Greenland behind closed doors?
WE FUCKING TOLD YOU
HE FUCKING TOLD YOU
THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION FUCKING TOLD YOU
I have the utmost sympathy and care for democrats and independents who tried and failed. I can’t tell them how to feel, but I’d feel scared and helpless.
Lmao, I’ve got a bullet for every magat fuck that crosses the border. Last thing they’ll hear is a tree speaking French
deleted by creator
LMAO!!!
it would be great to remind americans how many sniping records get broken by canadians. start making that gear domestically, if you don’t already. maybe start taking out tires on trucks with american plates. just so they know how unwelcome they are, and if they want to take something across the border, it had better be a canadian getting paid to do it.
you are absolutely fucking delusional
I’ll be on this side of the border lighting off freedom displays of fire works to signal every raiding party heading over.
I’m putting a new scope on my crossbow as we speak. Reusable ammo is an underrated perk.
Ah, the French Canadian spirit!
Brb gotta affix a bayonet on my shovel.
im with you 👊
Please stop radicalizing yourself and others. This is a conflict manufactured by Putin to sew disharmony between allies. There are better solutions, don’t stop looking for them.
Also, you may have just placed yourself in legal jeopardy. Fucking be cool.
Oh yeah? Is defending your country against an invasion illegal? Fuckin’ dweeb
Yeah and it worked. Canada and the us are fully enemies at this point. The best solution is for the what remains of the us to rise up and stamp out this dictatorship before things go too far.
This is a conflict manufactured by Putin to sew disharmony between allies.
It’s sow, not “sew”. But yeah, basically. He’s smarter than he gets credit for, not like it’s hard to fool someone like D-bag, but still. He saw a juicy opportinuty to manipulate a western bootlicker, and he got 77m other idiotic bootlickers to meme him into office.
Putin is absolutely extremely intelligent. Just also very evil.
Lol. Putin of course had a lot to do with it, but he targeted american trump supporters for a reason. They are particularily susceptible to manufactured division, they are subhuman hateful violent trash. I will gleefully kill the magat cultist freaks when they come to Canada. I have no doubt that Trump will try to send the military, and I have no doubt that his cultists will go along with it. Best of luck to anyone who wants to pursue “better solutions,” but I have been politely debating the issues for 10 years with republicans and they have only gotten crazier and crazier over time. The republican cult media ecosystem is pretty unanimous in their support for the annexation of Canada. This cannot be tolerated, not even 1 word of it. The line was crossed. There is no going back now, there is only one way out of this situation and its the expulsion of all the magats from the world. Send the cops to come arrest me. I won’t pretend that things are normal while the US prepares their citizens to accept Canada as an enemy that deserves to be attacked.
I agree with a lot of your points, but take a step back dude. You’re in too deep. Plan for the worst, sure, but don’t lose your humanity.
subhuman
you sure you’re not a fascist? you have some alarming things in common with one.
thank you though for providing a pitch perfect example of self-radicalization. i don’t think you’d even argue with that characterization, you’re proud of it.
Absolutely. You will find out soon enough why my characterization of the magats is justified.
It’s incredible seeing an almost exact replica of MAGA radicalization but that is fueled by hatred of the MAGA group instead of (American) democrats.
Humans are fucked.
Edit: I guess people misunderstood my point, the magas are wrong and fueled by lies and alternate reality, whereas the other commenter is fueled by self defense and hatred of the maga. But the Maga are convinced in their stupidity to be in the same self defense mode of the “other” who they’re told are bad
Your comment actually kept me up last night ngl. There is no way that is your actual take right. Hypothetically, lets pretend we are both in Czechoslovakia, and Hitler is about to invade. If I am really pissed off at the Nazis, because they are fueled by misinformation and unjustified hatred of out groups, does that make me the same as the Nazis? Like, was the worst thing about the Nazis the mean language they used, or was it the substance of their beliefs?
What I can say for sure is the odds that there will be some kind of political or economic rupture between the US and Canada that lasts decades into the future have gone up substantially just over the course of the past few months.
Yup. Trump’s legacy will not be a glowing one at all.
I doubt that. He fucked up the first time around, broke shit, wrecked things, stole classified documents, convicted of 34 felons, stole PPE from blue states to kill them during covid and millions needlessly died during covid. What happened? Nothing. People don’t really remember any of that. He was never punished for any of his actions or crimes.
Trump is the prime example of American hubris and apathy.
Trump’s legacy will not be a glowing one at all.
It might literally be glowing at this rate. Also smouldering.
A boy can dream…
It might be a glowing one. I’m more worried about nuclear war now than I have been since the late '80s.
I just hope people remember than even AFTER the government changes, the companies and people behind them are still the same.
The anger I’m seeing isn’t just at Trump, it’s at Americans in general.
They voted for this lunatic, twice. How can we possibly trust that shit like this won’t ever happen again?
Not to mention the 1/3 of eligible voters who couldn’t fucking be bothered to vote at all. Fuck them too.
Same in Ontario. Thanks for giving us Doug Ford 3 times in a row, non-voters.
Couldn’t agree more. It’s hard for North Americans to get off the couch to cast a ballot.
Well yeah! It’s winter for crying out loud! Also I’m paying for Netflix, prime, Disney,crave… I’m behind on my shows.
Yeah and we don’t have voter suppression laws.
I voted by mail, super easy.
It was over 1/3 of people who didn’t vote.
This. There were more voters that didn’t vote, than voted for trump. This is all because of ignorance and laziness. The US deserves everything it gets.
The rest of the world doesn’t.
Let’s leave a little bit of anger for those at home who are enthusiastically supporting Poilievre. They would happily lead Canada down the same path as the USA.
That is a different anger budget
That’s one of the biggest things. The first time they voted for Trump, we could forgive them, since it was hard to predict that he would be quite that awful. But this time? They knew. They knew what he was, what he stood for, and what he would do. They knew, and they chose him anyway.
Especially when he spent the four interim years purging the party of anyone not 100% faithful to him, and publicly upping the aggressive rhetoric.
Everyone outside the US who was paying attention saw this coming. If we were blindsided, it was only in how much he’s been able to get away with so quickly; but we knew what most of his goals were.
We can’t and whatever comes after trump will be worse. The US cannot be trusted and is not reliable.
Oh the North Remembers.
The problem is that there is a not-insignificant number of people that want the US to annex Canada.
In the US, about 15% of Trump voters would support annexation of Canada, even if Canada didn’t want it. That’s about 1 in 7.
https://vancouversun.com/news/trump-51st-state-most-americans-have-no-interest-in-canada-annex
The disturbing thing is that about 18% of Canadian Conservatives would support annexation. That’s almost 1 in 5. Most of us know five Conservatives, so chances are you know someone who is essentially a traitor. I think Conservative supporters need to be aware that this is the company they keep.
I’ve started telling people with those views in real life to becareful, they may get treated the same way collaborators were treated in the Nazi occupied areas of Europe post war. I find it changes their demeanor pretty quickly without actually being a threat.
(I also want it to feel like a threat because it is.)
It’s not a threat, it’s the reality of how these things go. With most of our WW2 veterans dead, most people have neither connection to, nor appreciation of, what happens during a military occupation. They think it’s a fucking joke. It most certainly isn’t. The moment hostilities become inevitable, all of the people who thought it was funny to “own the libs” by publicly supporting annexation will find they are easy, identifiable targets for righteous anger, and they should best get out before they’re put out. Note that the government will not have time for controlled and legally respectful deportation, and it will be aggrieved patriots who decide their fate. Crowds of angry, scared people are not gentle, and they tend to be creative in the most horrible ways.
After hostilities end, no matter how they end, these people will still not feel any comfort. If they end up on the wrong side of history, as they usually do as traitors in an occupation, their fate is grim indeed.
The bottom line is they really should reexamine their loyalties carefully and if they choose to retain treasonous loyalties they should strongly consider leaving Canada. Not sure why they would want to stay anyway, when they clearly do not offer nor deserve the respect of their fellow Canadians.
It’s not a threat, it’s the reality of how these things go.
Be careful, the government might disagree. If you called a politician or CEO and told them to be careful or the public may give them the Luigi treatment or 1789 French treatment then you would most likely be arrested for threatening violence.
100% agree.
Probably more Americans support being annexed by Canada than annexing Canada.
I mean, yeah I’d love it, but at the same time I wouldn’t want Canada to take on that kind of embarrassment and that much of a workload.
At this rate I would support the US being annexed by China. Don’t get me wrong, I much rather live in the EU, but the US’s two party system is so unbelievably incompetent and broken that even being governed by China would be an improvement over our current genocidal fascist oligarchy (I don’t actually want to be annexed by China, I want the US to adopt an actual democracy and to actually do things to help people instead of infinite money for genocide)
People in China accept having Xi as a dictator for life because they feel like a strong man is needed to run the economy and protect them from evil foreigners. Also he keeps the billionaires in China wealthy by oppressing the workers, so they support him.
Does any of this sound familiar? The US is already becoming China, no annexation needed.
The Vancouver Sun is owned by postmedia… so take whatever they,say with a grain of salt.
Yeah I hear you 100%. At this point any of the Postmedia outlets should be considered American propaganda, and they cannot be trusted.
However in this case the survey was from Angus Reid I believe. You can find the results elsewhere.
The one in five conservatives who want to be annexed by America know its the only way they can get American citizenship since they are probably low education and low skilled labour that America doesn’t even want. Otherwise they would just move to America.
That 18% number is based on polls that may be kinda susp, but even if it were true a lot of what I’ve heard from the dumbass gallery has been:
“Cool, then our dollar would finally be equal to USD” and “It’ll be easier to get flights to the US and Disneyland” or “Then we can vote in a proper government they’re and fix things”
I doubt the appetite for such goes much past a lack of critical thinking into what the realities would be
This may be so but as we’ve seen in other contexts - e.g., Brexit and the last US election - these are exactly the people that can do incredible damage that can last generations.
Absolutely. I’d also hazard that a certain portion of these “ideas” actually come from agents working social media etc to promote them .
They’re not just throwing out “DEI bad” but also “and wouldn’t you like…”
“Traitor,” okay. Canada may technically be a monarchy, but we don’t believe the monarch rules by divine right or something. They rule by appointment by Parliament. Parliament does not own us. Just because a person is born within Canada’s dominion does not place on them any moral or ethical obligation to support that state. How can someone who is not sworn to protect the state ever be a traitor?
Why don’t you go ask the Nazi sympathisers we executed for treason after the war about that?
If a state permits its citizens to betray the country in favour of an adversary in the event of a war, it’s incapable of protecting itself. The most important task of any society is to keep its members safe. A crucial aspect of that is accepting the social contract that everyone on the society will help keep each other safe, even in the event that an outside adversary invades and threatens to kill you. If you break that social contract- guess what? The rest of society will typically (at least historically) brand you as a traitor and imprison or execute you. Why? Because you’ve shown that you’re willing to put their head on the block for your own benefit, so they see you as a threat (perhaps the worst thinkable threat) to the security their society provides, and decide to remove that threat to protect themselves.
No matter what oath you have or haven’t taken, societies obligation to keep you safe only extends as far as your willingness to protect the society. This is why treason, in most societies, is seen as one of the worst, if not the worst, crime you can commit. It’s literally stabbing strangers that are willing to die for you and your family in the back.
Do you think the grandchildren of nazi resistors think their ancestor’s treasonous resistance was “the worst crime you can commit”?
We’re not at war. There is no fucking treason happening, except potentially by compromised politicians and bureaucrats. People who would like to see Alberta or Quebec succeed (regardless of which side of those borders they live on) and people who would like to amalgomate with the USA are not committing fucking treason. This is all so ignorantly hyperbolic, and it’s dangerous.
Sounds like a conservative that’s getting scared that thier views are becoming legitimately dangerous to have. To that I say: Good. We’ve been tolerating conservative rot for too long and letting the cookers slide too far to the right. It’s about time they start fearing for their lives the same way they make minorities fear for theirs. String up the traitors who want to negotiate with someone threatening to invade you.
The grass isn’t greener over here. It’s pay to play in a bucket full of crabs.
Also understand the psychological games being played. All this shit is psychological marketing social manipulation. You need a strong grasp understanding… I couldn’t even say what specifically but… But it’s almost impossible to get sucked into it even if you understand it.
It’s like just talking about the drama they are presenting is to already be failing at fighting it. But the paradox is you still have to fight it… Somehow.
This is just the reality of living in a free-thinking world.
Oh please fuck right off with this apologist bullshit.
I don’t care what people think, and it wouldn’t matter if I did, as long as they keep their treasonous sympathies in their own head.
The moment they voice it or act on it, then it becomes expression. And freedom of expression does not extend to treasonous or seditious speech or action, as it’s defined in the criminal code.
And anyway, where freedom of expression applies, it only protects against government suppression or legal repercussions. It has nothing to say about me making their lives miserable and making sure everyone knows they’re treasonous Yank sympathizers and just generally untrustworthy pieces of shit. And these people know that which is why they rarely make their views known publicly.
Well that, and they know that if they out themselves they’ll be the first up against the wall if shit gets ugly.
Damn right we are fucking mad.
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Look, I appreciate what you’re trying to say.
But man, do I really not care. When they say “at the US”, it means “at the US”. If there is one silver lining to this whole mess is that it is extremely, fundamentally, not about your feelings right now. We had to watch that trainwreck in slow motion, wondering what entitled nonsense of an excuse you were going to ride all the way to fascism (Gazan eggs, was it?) and now we don’t have to give a crap anymore because it’s done. I intend to take advantage of that.
But hey, you do all those things. If you guys ever come out of the sinkhole send a postcard. I’m sure our own survivors would loooove to know how it all went down from the Commonwealth of Eastasia or whatever is left at that point.
I am an idiot. I was yelling into the void and hoping to reach out and maybe give inspiration? to someone, BUT as an idiot I didn’t realize that I posted in a Canadian community. Yeah, we deserve everything we get. I can’t stand to even talk to other people I work with who helped make the situation the way it is. We are fucked here.
I am sorry
It happens.
Get organized.
As they should be. This administration is trying to bully them into being the 51st state for absolutely no reason. So dumb and unnecessary!
You have oil. Always look at what he or putin sees as bringing in lots of cash.
Trump’s goal was to sow division
Everything’s going to plan
as instructed by daddy putin
Except he got divisions in the USA and unexpected unity in Canada.
With a division between the US and Canada
Trump is ruining relationship with all of our allies to set up to flip on Russian side.
Canada is surrounded by the USA to the south and Russia to the north. Trump and Putin will be working something out. Being on friendly terms with the USA was foundational to Canada’s security, and now it’s gone.
inb4: Alaska allows Russian military base and Russian military exercises near Yukon and BC
This headline is subtly dismissive.
“Angry” and “right now” both suggest a transient state. That’s not what we’re seeing.
“Canada has finally had enough of the USA” would be a more apt title; or “Canada reaches its breaking point.”
Alongside of the #Never51 hashtag is an almost equally frequent #NeverGoBack. Canada, as a nation, as a people, are making the decision to go their own way, and never be so beholden to any country as we have been to the USA since 1959.
Never. Go. Back.
I hope you’re right, but the public’s memory is short.
Yea, in the US it lasts less than 4 years.
Some of the public are people like me. I stopped giving any money to Blizzard back when they made StarCraft (II?) require a Battle.NET account…or was it patching out already present offline LAN support? It was also hearing about shitty labor practices and workplace harassment at some point. My memory of why is pretty spotty, but the “don’t give Blizzard money” part has stayed crystal clear for decades now. I genuinely don’t remember why I first blacklisted EA games (might be commitment to DRM, might be just because they’re such a shitty company), but it’s on that list for life.
Heck, between 3rd-party DRM, loot boxes, and everything from “crunch time” development cycles to transphobia, I’ve been all but done with AAA gaming for several years. I could hardly be a gamer at all any more, if not for the rise of indie gaming, but that’s not really my point right now.
The point is I remember the important, actionable bits. And I think most other Canadians will also retain their simple conclusions that won’t need re-evaluation. After this, they’ll have a solitary pedestal in their mind palace just to store one special conclusion from all of this:
Fuck the U.S.
And after floundering around for a bit, Canadians will find the indie trade they love; in a few years, they won’t even miss AAA trading.
Congratulations on being part of the minority who keeps track of things like that. A lot of people just kind of go by their gut on every individual purchase.
As usual in politics and generally anything public facing, it’s not that people are literally incapable of remembering and understanding, as much as just not interested enough to do so.
I used to be angry.
I still am, but I used to be, too.
Elbows Up!
Hate.
