Context:
Hot take: Both sides suck.
“Palestine has no right to exist” might not get you banned over at /News. But it is a wild take.
Ah yes… “The genociders and their victims… Both terrible!!!” Genius take. Very common in the imperial core.
Is that actually a tolerable opinion in the sense of “paradox of tolerance”? Or is it hate speech that leads to intolerance?
Like “deport all jews from greater palestine” would mean ethnic cleansing which would not be tolerable. The only logical solution seems to be a 1 state solution that would need decades of investment, reeducation, de-nazification and de-radicalization on both sides.
Or said differently, “Palestine doesn’t have a right to exist” is not tolerable right?
Historic arguments that wold have been valid 70 years ago are now not useful since the reality is like it is. Something like “USA doesn’t have a right to exist, Europeans go home!” doesn’t make sense either except in the hypothetical where it would .
South Africa ended a similar system of apartheid and the effects of that, including the beneficiaries of apartheid choosing to leave the country (often to Israel so they could keep doing apartheid) were preferable to keeping the unjust system.
Saying Israel doesn’t have a right to exist isn’t the same as saying all Jews should be forced to leave. Ideally, if they want to then they should be free to live in a country where Jews and Palestinians have equal rights, including the right to vote, such a country would no longer be an ethnostate and would probably not chose to call itself “Israel.”
Saying Israel doesn’t have a right to exist isn’t the same as saying all Jews should be forced to leave.
But it is virtually indistinguishable of what someone would say if they wished for ethnic cleansing. At the very least it sounds like a dog whistle. You could instead say Zionism or apartheid or fascist Israel has no right to exist.
And yeah, my original comment is also virtually indistinguishable from a mealymouthed moderate liberal lol.
But it is virtually indistinguishable of what someone would say if they wished for ethnic cleansing. At the very least it sounds like a dog whistle.
I have no patience for equating anti-zionism with antisemitism like this. This tactic is frequently used in bad faith by zionists to dismiss all criticism of Israel and to paint people as bigots for acknowledging that Palestinians have rights. For example, the US State Department explicitly lists criticism of the state of Israel as a form of “antisemitism,” “Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor,” and, “Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis,” are both listed as example of it. Israel is an enthostate and it’s engaged in genocide and Lebensraum, and you have to be willing to brush off such spurious accusations of antisemitism to be reasonable.
No one said anything about Israelis or Jews or ethnic cleansing. What we’ve said is that Israel - the geopolitical entity - does not have a right to exist. It doesn’t. We could use a different term for Israel but we are in no way obligated to and shouldn’t be expected to. What we say is what we mean. If you read in some hidden meaning that we don’t say then you could do the same for just about anything anybody says.
I’m also disgusted by the rhetoric and new fascist antisemitism “definition”. I’m not uninformed or pro-Israel at all.
But I definitely consider “Palestine has no right to exist” as hate speech and would demand censoring / banning that. Because there is a clear implication. We can not afford to allow tolerance towards intolerance.
The only thing I would say in favor of OP is that because Palestine is currently weaker and the oppressed victim, and rightfully outraged, it’s not fair to demand higher standards from them and is therefor hypocritical.
During WWII I don’t think it would be unreasonable to say, “Germany doesn’t have a right to exist,” but if you said “Poland doesn’t have a right to exist,” that would be pretty different. The latter is justifying subjugation of the country but the former is objecting to the state doing the subjugating.
The trick here is that “Palestine” does not refer to any state*; as such someone saying “Palestine has no right to exist” can be only talking about the population, and promoting ethnic cleansing. That’s why it’s hate speech.
On the other hand “Israel” can refer to both “the Israeli population” and “the state of Israel”. So, every bloody time you attack the later, you get people misrepresenting your attack as if it was against the population. And Zionists have been exploiting this for ages, to silence anyone who speaks against it.
*Palestine does have a state (or something close to one), but people typically call it “Hamas” instead of “Palestine”.
‘The Russians occupying Crimea cannot be deported that would be ethnic cleansing’. No it would not. There were Nazis occupying Polish houses and they were kicked out after WW2 and sent back where they came from.
‘Deport all Jews from Palestine’ would be ethnic cleansing as many Jews lived in Palestine before Zionism.
Palestinians have the full right to all their land back. If a European colonist is currently occupying it that is not their problem. The fact that their parents stole it in an ethnic cleansing does not change this in the slightest. Nor does them being Jewish mean that they suddenly get a special antisemitism exception to do colonialism and steal people’s houses.
There were many historically German language areas in Poland and Czechia. There was in fact atrocities and ethnic cleansing there - not that this deserves any pity for most of the “former NAZIs”. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944–1950)
After 50 years I don’t think any reasonable person can make the argument that removing Jews from Israel is anything but ethnic cleansing. Not that I’d have any pity on those zionist fascists either, BUT it’s beyond the pale to feign outrage over your “innocent comment” if this is your true opinion.
YDI
So what do you say about the Russians occupying Crimea? Would it be ethnic cleansing to deport them? Does Russia own Crimea because they ethnically cleansed it and then sent a few squatters?
Of course, two wrongs don’t make it right! You can’t hold the people living in an area collectively responsible for the actions of their regime (past or present). They are human beings.
I am angry too and I agree that the regime and a majority of the population of Israel has become fascist along with decades of crimes, terrorism and oppression, and should fall and be “de-nazied” like in Germany. But that is unlikely anytime soon. Best we can do is sanction them to collapse and punish those who support this regime.
The issue is that the fascist assault also has an impact on all of us, by making us angry and wish for simple solutions. Don’t play into their hands by validating their claims about the “radical left”.
Returning Palestinians property to them is not collective punishment. And since most Israelis serve in the IDF they are responsible.
Just because their grandfather stole something doesn’t make it theirs. The owners are alive and they are required to return it. Any other opinion is pure racism.
Real justice would require Israelis to pay reparations besides the return of all Palestinian property.
They are drafted, and refusing to serve is not easy, and they are inundated by propaganda. And yeah reparations, land reform, wealth redistribution all would need to happen.
And if you’re taking about the recent settlements (say like up to 20 years ago) and dispossession of Palestinians, yeah I agree. But there is a “statue of limitations”. You can’t unravel history. Humans in general who live somewhere and have build their lives deserve protection - no matter how they got there or what shitty and vile opinions they hold. It’s not a property dispute if you want to apply this to a whole nation.
Personally I don’t see this ending well. There are about a billion climate refugees coming in the next decades and things will get much worse generally. Israel will probably become isolated and eventually loose USA support and use their nuclear weapons. But after than it’s quite possible Israel will indeed end with another holocaust. But I see no reason to hope for or argue in favor of that.
All Israelis have a country of origin they can go back to. These people are ‘dual’-nationality’d up the whazoo. These are not events lost to time. Israelis are still actively participating in the disposession and theft of Palestinian land.
There is no such thing as “reverse ethnic cleansing”. That would be like calling it ‘reverse theft’ when a thief is caught and the wallet is returned to the original owner. Their grandparents doing the theft does not make it any less theft.
PTB
Zionists are on the wrong side of history
Whats PTB?
What a group of assholes to down vote you for asking. It’s pulmonary tuberculosis. I mean that’s the main thing that comes up when searching. It took a couple minutes to find “powers that be” and I’m not sure that that fits perfectly with the flow, or that it would be the most common acronym. I’d assume based on the context of the thread. On the other hand “please text back” is probably more commonly used.
From the sidebar:
Some acronyms you might see.
- PTB - Power-Tripping Bastard: The commenter agrees with you this was a PTB mod.
- YDI - You Deserved It: The commenter thinks you deserved that mod action.
- BPR - Bait-Provoked Reaction: That mod probably overreacted in charged situation, or due to being baited.
- CLM - Clueless mod: The mod probably just doesn’t understand how their software works.
Ah thanks lol I searched but didn’t look in the sidebar haha
PTB. .world’s stances continue to be completely indistinguishable from State Department propaganda. I guess it was only a matter of time until the mods started cracking down on anti-Zionism. Fully expect to see them ban someone for promoting BDS next.
What a shocker that someone banned from a community for trolling and sharing misinformation is here to let everyone know that said community is bad.
You wouldn’t be complaining about this at all if it was .ml banning someone.
Would be hillarious if they put an anti-BDS clause in the .world terms of service.
Honestly, they should just make users recite the Pledge of Allegiance to sign up.
It’s sort of fun to note that many of the people that are always upset and angry about .world moderation are the ones that have been banned for trolling and spreading misinformation there.
It’s almost as if there’s a bias from the people that are always accusing others of bias!
It’s sort of fun to note that many of the people that are always supportive about .world moderation are Zionists.
It’s almost as if there’s a bias from the people that are always accusing others of bias!
There’s a way you can get your point across without violating the rules of the community/instance.
If you look around there, you’ll see TONS of shit that supports your ideology. Form almost every angle.
The difference is that the shit that remains there, does so by not violating the rules.
And go ahead and check the modlogs of your precious .ml. Tell me that every single removal/ban that criticizes Russia/China is fair in your eyes.
The hypocrisy is fucking mind blowing.
The /news mod admitted that the comment removal was unjust. You might want to ‘change your initial statement’ as Israel calls it.
Looks to be they admitted the reason used was unjust. And that doesn’t change my point.
Can’t help yourself from making up more lies I see. Typical.
Rhoeri is infamous for being a smug prick who thinks they’re right and then blocks so they can stay in their personal bubble. Ignore them, they’ll be smug as they march into the death camps.
I quickly skimmed their comment history and they appear think the genocide in Palestine is happening because people didn’t vote Democrat hard enough. At least the seem to “care” now that Trump is the one doing it.
That is, if they can help themselves from saying that “the genocide is the fault of the tankies which did not vote for Kamala”. Because that seems to be the thing their main contribution.
Hilarious!
Ewww… you’re laughing about genocide
Genocide is funny to you, understood.
“Hey I got banned for saying genocide is bad, maybe the mods there suck?”
“You’re just mad about getting banned, loser!”
YDI
I mean … That statement itself isn’t just anti-zionist. You literally say a whole group of people should not exist.
I am pro-Palestinian, too. That doesn’t mean I think all Israelis should die.
Israel is a terrorist organization not a group of people.
My statement is the literal definition of anti-Zionism.
That’s completely ridiculous. How the hell do you get from “Israel doesn’t have a right to exist” to “all Israelis should die?” Israel is a state, saying it doesn’t have a right to exist is opposing the state, the same way if I said “Nazi Germany doesn’t have a right to exist” I’m not calling for everyone in Nazi Germany to be put to death, I’m calling for the elimination of the state.
Nowhere does it say all Israelis should die, it says the nation doesn’t have a right to exist.
Those are two different ideas. Like how Israel says Palestine doesn’t exist, and also commit genocide to its people. There are nations that don’t think Palestine exists and don’t do that. Same for Israel.
Well that’s great, but they didn’t say Israelis should die either, so I dunno why you’re claiming they did.
PTB.
That said you’re biting obvious bait - a good chunk of those discussions boil down to ambiguous words referring to both actual human beings and states/governments, to defend the later as if it was an attack on the former.
Yes, people called Israel exist.
But from the thread the comment was placed in, it should be clear I was talking about the apartheid colonizing Palestine. Not a persons right to existence
It was clear for me, too. However, a lot of people struggle to tell apart two things when you use the same word to refer to them, and that’s one of those cases.
My suggestion in this regard is to always use “state of Israel” instead. You’ll still get some bans, but it becomes harder for supporters of the genocidal state to claim “no, ur teh 1 defending genoside”.
This would require acknowledging Israel as a state, which it is not.
Nobody uses the term "state of Israel to refer to it. Demonstrated by the title of the posted article “Israel announces expansion…”. Not a single person raises the question if this means a person called “Israel” is planning to become so obese that they occlude the Gaza strip.
The word “Israel” suffices and the .World moderators know perfectly well what is means. There is no ambiguity to hide behind.
This would require acknowledging Israel as a state, which it is not.
Israel is a government controlling a population and a territory. It is a state by definition. To claim otherwise is fucking stupid.
And that’s central here. A state is an “it”; unlike human beings, it has no right to defend itself. And it should be dismantled once it harms actual people, just like Nazi Germany was.
Demonstrated by the title of the posted article
Yeah, just like article titles demonstrate English has no articles. Pfffft.
Not a single person raises the question
That’s why you totally weren’t banned for “racism”, as if you were targetting actual people instead of a genocidal power structure, right? Right??? Oh wait.
The word “Israel” suffices
This sounds exactly the same as
“Since I’m too stubborn to avoid falling into the sort of trap nationalists love to set up, I’ll keep helping the Zionists and clueless muppets to equate «attacks against Israel» = «racism».”
You might not be a Zionist but you’re certainly eager to contribute with them.
An occupation is not a state. If controlling an area and population with government would make something a state, the RSF in Sudan would be a state and Crimea would be transferred into Russia the moment it got occupied.
Your comment is the definition of
“This is hurting your cause - person against cause”
If controlling an area and population with government would make something a state, the RSF in Sudan would be a state
“But what about the RSF?”
That said, yes, the RSF is either a state already or really close to one.
Crimea would be transferred into Russia the moment it got occupied.
Crimea is disputed by two states and under effective control of one (Russia). “Congrats” for proving Russia is a state.
Your comment is the definition of // “This is hurting your cause - person against cause”
Emphasis mine. I outright compared that crap with Nazi Germany, so stop lying / assuming / bullshitting that I would be against the cause of getting rid of it.
That said if the expression “state of Israel” makes you so uncomfortable, you could use any other expression of your choice, as long as it leaves clear that you’re referring solely to the power structure and not the population.
Unless you’d rather keep being the zionists’ little plaything in their language game, and actually help them to spread their idiotic and immoral “noooooo, people defending the Palestinians are Nazi” babble. Because that’s what you’re doing here.
You are out here recognizing the RSF and ISIS as states to defend Israel and think anyone will take you seriously?
I left .world a while ago, I didn’t leave Reddit to put up with the same bullshit on Lemmy
Yeah the mods of the news Community being in favor of fascism doesn’t surprise me.
.world is a festering mess of liberalism, you say?
Colour me surprised.
The place that banned all criticism of Biden/Harris and then wondered where all the critics went, justifying their bad beliefs that all of them were bots? Yeah I wonder why its a shitlib utopia.
I don’t actually recall the .world mods or admins themselves calling people bots, and I’ve recently seen them removing comments containing bot accusations.
There is this same body of users who got all up in the 196 forced migration and subsequent drama with the blahaj instance. It is the same group of people obsessed with everything outside American politics being russian bots and chinese spies. The same folks are constantly trying to perpetuate instance wars on political propaganda grounds.
The admins don’t, but a lot of the userbase used t (and still does) calls anyone who mildly critcized Harris as a secret Russian asset/bot, or a useful idiot who bought into the campaign.
When Biden was bad at the debate and I said “Man he looks so unfit for this” I was called a russian bot. I reported the comments and nothing got removed or banned.
And I recently got banned from [email protected] because I defended myself from a moronic shitlib troll. The troll didn’t get banned, I did.
lot of the userbase used t (and still does) calls anyone who mildly critcized Harris as a secret Russian asset/bot
Yep. As ya remember, I was called a bot and accused of being russian, every single post where I criticized the corrupt duopoly. Even tho I voted socialist! lmao
.world got what they deserved in the election. They were just clueless about how bad of a take they had on things.
OP: you were right. This is a case of PTB for sure.
Exactly!
Sorry for not seeing this earlier. Work was hell today.
Your correct. This isn’t racism. I’m reinstating your comment now.
Thanks
It’s wild how .world has somehow managed to become an even worse reddit lmao
Not that wild when you remember how often they defend transphobia, genocide, capitalism, wanted “both sides” for things like flat world cranks, and then defend the users who moderate communities that stifle disagreement with these concepts.
I’m saying it’s wild how they got to the point of doing all that shit in the first place. And now there’s an even worse reddit.
if .world was mass defederated, I’d miss like 6 users and maybe 2 communities, that’s it.
After everyone pointed out how terrible the flat earth idea was did they ever do their updated version?
Or was that just their way of saying look away as we still do what everyone hated
I don’t think they did it, no. I could be wrong, but man the fact they thought that “Yes, we will tolerate batshit crazy people like flat world people, because debate is healthy” instead of going “No you fucking morons aren’t allowed.”
Still nothing, at least nothing from same person who did the post, or in the comm
https://lemmy.world/post/24135976
Guess soon means different things to them.
Coming soon, valve time!
That’s a pretty anti-semitic comment
/s
Conflating the actions of Israel with Jews is what’s anti-Semitic. The question I have, is why you hate Jews enough to blame them for what Israel is doing.
If u want a news community without power tripping mods I run [email protected]
Isn’t that an actual nazi instance?
Yeah, it’s the new exploding heads.
It’s a troll instance. So, same thing.
No its an instance that allows free speech. Allowing people to say any shit that’s isn’t calling for violence isn’t Nazism its free speech.
Allowing people to say nazi shit is nazism.
Block this guy. You’ll live a happier life.
One could make an argument that a lot of comments relating to the speech I see on Lemmy related to Israel and the jews is Nazism.
Of course they could make that argument. You can make any argument you want, even if the argument is stupid, like yours just now. That’s how arguing works.
More that it is the successor of the previous nazi instance exploding heads.
https://gui.fediseer.com/instances/detail/hilariouschaos.com
None of those claim Nazism
they loved what I said, they just hated the word nazi
Clueless mod.
While the comment definitely needed removal, that’s not a form of racism.
While the comment definitely needed removal
?
Sure.
The only people that regularly say that Israel doesn’t have a right to exist are stirring shit, it isn’t a good faith argument. It never, ever, leads to a good conversation where everyone stays chill and on topic.
There’s the implication that jews have no right to a homeland of some kind, which is probably why they attributed it to racism (antisemitism), but it isn’t necessarily about that. It could be, I don’t know your stance in that regard, but it’s definitely anti Israeli, which is a fairly pernicious loophole, imo.
If you’re saying that no nation has a right to exist, fine, cool, maybe saying that would have been a better choice. But you can’t pretend you don’t know that that rhetoric is also slung around by antisemites.
Now, I gotta add my usual warning here. This community isn’t the place to debate the issue itself. I’m not going to go any further than what’s needed to explain my opinion regarding PTB or not. There’s a solid community for continuing to debate topics that get locked, and others for political debates in general, if that’s your bag.
The only people that regularly say that Israel doesn’t have a right to exist are stirring shit,
Israel doesn’t have a right to exist.
(The state of) Israel doesn’t have a right to exist, to keep the libs happy and unscreeching
That’s a lot of assumptions there. There are many reasons to believe that Israel has no right to exist that aren’t connected to bigotry or racism. You could say a state of a single religion in power in detriment of other religions and peoples is a recipe for disaster, as it invariably disenfranchises part of what a real, non curated (read, oppressed/victim of genocide) population is, since there is no place in the world with open borders in which there is only one religion, unless enforced somehow. You could say other religions are allowed to exist in Israel, but we all know they don’t get the same rights as those of the jewish faith or even safety.
The homeland of Jews is the same homeland of Christians or Muslims or Buddhists. A free, democratic, secular land is home of us all. My homeland is home for Jews if they so wish it. To create special bubbles for religions, such as a country for a single religion, is antithetical to democracy, freedom of religion and secularism. It’s simply backwards thinking. Those are the values of the culture of a great deal of people and it’s only normal they reject the antithesis of those values. Sure, there are many countries with primacy for a single religion, and their system is, imo, not any more right than what Israel is.
Then, you have the way of how that land was appropriated and how it continues to be appropriated. There is no plan in the near or medium future for Israel that does not involve mass murder and repossession. To accept the existence of Israel is to accept their current ethos. There were decades of chances and proposals for a two state solution or a one state secular solution, but they didn’t happen and they aren’t happening, so for many the question boils down to, are you ok with wholesale genocide of the Palestinians in order for Israel to exist ? Because as of this current moment, one thing explicitly implies the other. Not per se, but taking into account the entire history of the modern state of Israel and the plans of its current administration.
I think thinking this way is dismissing an entire swath of legitimate expressions of political opinions that aren’t necessarily motivated by hatred of a religion or a race of people. I find it perfectly legitimate to consider Zionism and Israel toxic colonialist ideologies that have not brought and will never bring anything good to the world, but really, it depends on the context of before and after.
I could also consider that any person who thinks Israel has a right to exist is also expressing racism towards Palestinians, since for Israel to exist with their current plans, Palestinians must become stateless or be killed. However, i understand this issue is more complicated than that, since there are a myriad of reasons why someone could be thinking that. For instance, they could be thinking of a possible future where Israeli magically become human and stop indiscriminately murdering civilians, most of which children, then out of the goodness of their hearts spare an economically viable continuous stretch of land where Palestinians can exist in peace and make it illegal for wild settlers to drive them away from it. Like my dear, lovable and gullible EU does. For me personally I’d probably even disregard how much i idealogically disagree with the entire concept of Zionism, if genocide was off the table.
Anyway, long story short, despite being used by antisemites, rejecting Israel or Zionism in itself is not evidence enough for racism or antisemitism and my opinion is that attempts of doing so are merely tools to groom public discourse away from the real problem of the ongoing genocide. Don’t take my word for it, hear the thousands of jews worldwide who came out to express just this feeling.
Do people not read?
I said I wasn’t being into the debate here, and only went into it far enough to explain what OP asked for.
I respect your wishes to not debate. That doesn’t mean other people aren’t allowed to express their opinions to your comment in this public forum in regards to your already expressed opinions. Maybe someone else would like to come in other than you who shares your opinion. Maybe i could learn from their criticism of my opinions or yours and hopefully become a wiser person than i am now.
Nobody is asking you to continue debating. You do it if you feel like it bud. It’s your right to do as you please, so long as we’re all respectful here. All the best.
The point is that the more walls of text there are, the less the focus is on the point of the C/.
Every person that starts pounding their pulpit here makes it harder to wade through the junk and get to discussion about mod actions. There’s dozens of places to delve into the hot button topics, but there’s really only two that function as a practical meeting ground for ongoing discussions about moderation and how it shapes lemmy. When there’s a dozen off topic rambles about the secondary issue, it makes the community useless for its primary one.
And, for whatever fucking reason, instead of at least making the comments their own top level one, people seem to insist on clogging up my inbox with shit I’m not going to read because I already said I wasn’t interacting with it here. So it’s also annoying as fuck on a personal level. I genuinely wonder what the fuck people are thinking when they pull this shit. Someone says “I’m not going to engage in that subject”, but they’re going to pound the fuck out of that subject anyway. After a certain point, it’s just rude.
Stay the fuck on topic. It’s that easy.
Wow you seem to have a personal level axe to grind with the way forums like Lemmy work. I’m gonna let you to it then. Get those kids off this lawn, grampa.
You don’t wanna answer, don’t answer. You don’t wanna read, don’t read. You don’t wanna watch youtube videos, don’t watch them. You don’t want replies about a topic, don’t express comments about that topic. You don’t get to say, oh here’s my opinion, here are my arguments, now nobody reply because i don’t think it’s appropriate to discuss it here. My brother in humanity, you started this whole discussion. Ain’t no way I’m going to start a thread in Israel-Palestine or whatever and ping you to reply to these arguments, that’s not how any of this works. A blog would perhaps be more appropriate if you desire that sort of engagement.
Yes we get it. Your original arguments were trash and you don’t want to defend them. Go away.
Jews don’t have the right to kill other people and steal their land. Nobody has a Reicht to do that. This is not a “controversial” viewpoint.
By that argument no countries have a right to exist.
By singling out Israel people will assume you’re pushing the same antisemitic line.
Make better arguments and maybe that won’t be so easily swatted down.
By that argument no countries have a right to exist.
Now you’re getting it.
By that argument no countries have a right to exist.
Correct. Borders are lines drawn in the sand because of modern warlords called politicians.
By singling out Israel people will assume you’re pushing the same antisemitic line.
“No one has the right to murder for land gain.”
“That’s wildly antisemitic!”
“I’m talking about Russia attacking Ukraine.”
Murder and war is bad. It’s not unique to Israel that murder is bad, because bloodshed is bad when any nation does it in the name of nationalism, and genocide.
No settler colony has a right to exist. If you believe people have the right to kill Palestinians and steal their land because “they’re Jewish”, then you are the racist.
This is akin to removing comments saying Russia has no right to colonize Ukraine.
Stop putting words in my mouth.
If you say “X has no right to exist” you’re going to get shut down because it’s a lazy inflammatory argument.
If you say “X has no right to exist” you’re going to get shut down because it’s a lazy inflammatory argument.
It’s a simple and obvious argument. They’ll be shut down because we live in a fascist society that denies basic history and reality.
I am not putting words in your mouth your argument is complete nonsense
Since you still don’t get it let’s do a 1 for 1 comparison and swap for Israel with another religious ethogroup which murders civilians because it believes it has a right to a historical land.
Does ISIS-K have a right to exist in Syria?
Well, as I said, I’m not debating any of that here. If you want to post about it somewhere that is appropriate for that conversation, ping me, and we’ll talk about it.
Since when do we not talk about politics on Lemmy? That and posting about Linux is about the crux of Lemmy. Mods cannot decide censorship is warranted because they deem a subject “controversial”.
But before you decide to respond I would recommend you watch at least the first 10 minutes of this video as adresses every argument you made.
Oh, talking about politics on lemmy is fine.
Pounding the political pulpit beyond the bare minimum necessary on this community is where it goes wrong.
And yes, actually, moderators absolutely get to decide what is and isn’t appropriate content for their community. That’s what a moderator is, the person or persons that curate a community.
And, yet a-fucking-gain, as I’ve already said, I’m not getting into debate about the subject itself here. I’m also not wasting my time with some random YouTube video as a proxy to that
And, yet a-fucking-gain, as I’ve already said, I’m not getting into debate about the subject itself here.
So why are you still typing?
Pounding the political pulpit beyond the bare minimum necessary on this community is where it goes wrong.
You said that comments denying the right of Israel to exist should be removed. This cannot be followed up by refusing to elaborate. If there is anything wrong or racist about saying an Apartheid should not exist then you are welcome to back it up with claims.
I am of the opposite opinion that anyone who believes Israel has the right to exist is racist.
And yes, actually, moderators absolutely get to decide what is and isn’t appropriate content for their community. That’s what a moderator is, the person or persons that curate a community.
With all the complains about “.ml censorship” I would not expect this kind of arguments here. LW moderators having the power to censor for Israel does not mean they are not in the wrong for doing it.
The only people that regularly say that Israel doesn’t have a right to exist are stirring shit,
I think you mean people with a realistic understanding of history and current reality… That’s definitely stirring shit in this fascist society.
There’s the implication that jews have no right to a homeland of some kind,
Nobody has a right to “homeland” especially when it belongs to someone else and is stolen through genocide.
There can be some arguments made in good faith against existence of Israel.
Israel exists because of one of the last follies of colonial empires before they stopped having enough push for this kind of things. It was created by displacing whole peoples based on agreement made over their heads. Continued existence of Israel has shown that it’s an apartheid expansionist state built on a dangerous mixture of religious zealotry and nationalism.
I think Germans should make their last „sorry guys” and give them some land. I know it wasn’t feasible before because Jews were scared of their oppressors but you can’t say Germans are in any shape or form antisemitic these days. I guess Middle Eastern immigrants in Germany would take an some issue with that but that’s German domestic politics. Then Germans can stop feeling sorry and they can also stop supplying weapons to kill Palestinians.
Sure, but that’s different than the dog whistle that is the specific line in question here.
I know, not everyone has the leisure to keep track of all of those. There’s just so damn many of them nowadays. And they’ve spread beyond the people that started using them into the general populace, which means they’ve been successful in one part of their original intent.
But, the arguments that Israel is a rogue state would be out of scope here, even though I agree with that.
I thought so too for a long time. I changed my mind based on recent events and now I believe anti-zionists are called antisemites very purposefully.
