usually scientists have easier time moving there, than not. i dont have a PHD or MD,just had a degree in said bio/research, i know people that have similar issues even with a MS. found out through many job forums, now shut down. that it is extremely gatekeeped(2-4+years experience, with additional skills nobody has heard of), meaning the hiring pool is small so they can avoid hiring too many people lowering salaries of the scientists, being cheap.
Wish I could. I feel like as a woman in her forties I am not valued since I won’t be having kids. When you’re middle aged, less countries seem to want you even if you are a decent non-nutbag who makes decent money…
Are visas for childbearing a thing? I immigrated as a skilled worker, but I don’t remember any checkboxes for women willing to be broodmares.
The qualification requirements are based on your knowledge and field and their need to fill jobs in that field. Age and kids and genitalia are not part of the requirements
I can program and I have a mechanical engineering degree but I have super niche skills so I can’t get hired abroad. I always read that there’s a skills shortage in tons of countries but there aren’t any actual jobs to take.
Niche is usually what does get you the job
Move there as a tourist first. I got a job within 2 days.
Easier said than done for a lot of us. Being over 40 and with a family, even in tech, makes it hard as hell.
But god speed to those who can make it out because America is just going to get worse even if Trump crashes and burns.
Programmer in 40’s. Applied for one job. Immigrated. A lot of people just assume it is too hard and use that to excuse not trying. Perhaps you are, but those who aren’t, go for it.
41, and only one sellable skill that only has a 50/50 chance of getting me into Canada. My issue is both my parents are elderly and need me around to take care of them, and will under no circumstances move anywhere. So I couldn’t in good conscience leave.
I’m not married, I have no kids, my plan is just keep my head down, take care of my parents, and once they’re gone sit back and wait for death… which will probably be from a disease thanks to the gutting of the CDC and NIH.
I’m in a pretty similar position. 41, no kids, not married, around for elderly parents (missed work last week due to mom having a surgery), and the plans are pretty bleak for once they’re gone.
I’m not really interested in leaving the country even though I have some in-demand skills. My plan at this point is to be as big of a pain in the ass as I can to fascists. I’ll escalate once there’s no longer the responsibility of being around for my folks.
I’m in the exact same boat as you. I don’t have any funds to leave, nor any specialized skill(s) a country might want, just military, and care taker work. I’m burnt out as fuck. But just like you, I can’t bare to leave my aging parents alone. I took care of my grandad for 3 years, alone during Covid while his dementia worsened. Worse thing I ever had to do in my life, but I don’t regret giving my grandad the best care I could give him. I wish you good luck tho and hope your parents appreciate what you are sacrificing.
Don’t stop being nice to people, still try to be genuine and humble and look at things objectively and this sick world won’t get you down as much. I don’t see any future and it’s fucking depressing, but I’ll be damned if I let dipshits in Congress destroy all my happiness. I try my best to stay happy or content out of spite. Good luck my guy.
Yep it sucks and we’re stuck, but good on you for taking care of your grandad during all that. My aunt and uncle live in another part of the country and she had to care for him during his dementia decline, it was heartbreaking that there was nothing we could do to help. The only savings grace was that their oldest son is a state trooper and since he had to be out anyway he would stop by at the end of his shift and help out for a few hours every day.
Best of luck to you as well, and as you said stay positive.
apparently it was hard to get into biotech, unless your a scientist, it will be hard to find a job overseas. people cant even get into the field at the undergrad level, knew people who had MS had the same problem. these industries take advantage of people so much. also the lack of developed fast railways makes difficult for people to find jobs, which are often hours away from twhere they live.
It’s not even Trump really, it’s the whole movement that has been building around him and will live on after him. No one knows what the future holds but I’m willing to bet whatever comes after Trump will be worse.
I left the US and renounced my citizenship 24 years ago, after Dubya shat out the USA Patriot Act and I knew the US would turn into a full-blown Nazi state some day.
Best thing I ever did.
it was apparent when thier minds broke when obama became president, “how dare a black person become one over white one”
How do you visit family? You have to get a visa every time?
Where did you go?
When I left, I went to Canada. Then the UK - which was in Europe back then. Then I lived in a bunch of countries in Europe. Then Australia. Then back to Europe. That’s where I am now.
Were you able to get citizenship somewhere, or just permanent residency? I admit idk exactly how that works in terms of citizenship renouncement
It was easy for me: I had dual citizenship. I simply renounced the wrong one - which cost me a pretty penny: it’s a real racket run by the US, this. But it paid for itself many times over in that I never had to pay US taxes for income I generated outside the US, which is also another US racket.
But it paid for itself many times over in that I never had to pay US taxes for income I generated outside the US
Did it really? I was under the impression that foreign taxes paid reduced US taxes owed, so (unless you were in some low-tax country, which doesn’t seem likely given that you’re talking about countries with better government services than the US) wouldn’t your US taxes have been minimal, if not zero? I also understand that filing each year to claim that exemption could be a hassle, but it doesn’t seem like enough of one to be worth the “racket” of renunciation over.
I’m open to the idea that renunciation could be better than maintaining dual citizenship, but you haven’t convinced me yet. What other pros/cons are there?
Renounciation costs (or at least used to cost) a few thousand dollars. That’s money you quickly recoup by not paying any US taxes.
Besides, I don’t see why I should pay Uncle Sam anything of what I earn abroard, living abroad and working in a foreign company, not using any American services or infrastructure. The only rational Uncle Sam has to offer for extracting taxes from US citizens residing abroad is essentially “Pay up or else…” That’s a racket, pure and simple: even if it wasn’t financially sound, I don’t pay racketeers.
What other pros/cons are there?
Not being an American is a big pro. Your conscience is less dirty.
And as of Apr 14, 2025, the safety of not living in a dictatorship where the rule of law doesn’t apply anymore is also a big plus.
And while not directly linked to citizenship proper, living abroad offers many advantages: working healthcare, a decent education for your children, publc services that work… Yes, you pay a lot of taxes in Europe, but you know what you get out of it. The quality of life in Europe is much higher than in the US. And - I know it sounds weird but it’s true - you don’t need the constant background paranoia you need to live in the US. You don’t realize the paranoia is there until you leave and then it lifts from you. It’s a real thing.
But of course you can experience all that while still being an American. Not being American is mostly a matter of refusing to be associated with - and finance - an amoral society.
Its not just a fixed fee. There’s also a percent of your whole net worth that you have to pay.
they need to fund thier overbloated defense budget somehow, at the expense every other social program.
That’s money you quickly recoup by not paying any US taxes.
You’ve said that twice now. I was under the impression that if your US tax liability is $X but you already paid >$X in foreign taxes, you file a form saying so and your US tax liability drops to $0. Is my understanding incorrect?
And as of Apr 14, 2025, the safety of not living in a dictatorship where the rule of law doesn’t apply anymore is also a big plus.
That’s an excellent argument for not living within US jurisdiction, but how is it an argument for not keeping US citizenship as an ex-pat? Are first-world countries like the ones you mentioned likely to force you to return to US jurisdiction even with you being a citizen of the other country?
[Listing of various qualitative benefits, concluding with…] Not being American is mostly a matter of refusing to be associated with - and finance - an amoral society.
No argument from me on any of that! (In particular, as a Not Just Bikes fan, I’m well aware and extremely envious of superior European quality of life.)
Are there any other concrete reasons why having secondary US citizenship would be a liability, though? For example, does it cause problems crossing borders even if you’re traveling on the other country’s passport, or some other practical issue like that? Or maybe I vaguely remember reading something once about it being problematic to open foreign bank accounts as a US citizen…? Those are the kinds of things I’m hoping you could expand upon.
The US doesn’t give a shit how much you pay in foreign taxes. Its irrelevant to the IRS.
The foreign income tax exemption varies based on marital status, but generally you dont pay US taxes if you earned less than $100,000 per year.
Except for capital gains. There’s no foreign income exemption for that.
You’ve said that twice now. I was under the impression that if your US tax liability is $X but you already paid >$X in foreign taxes, you file a form saying so and your US tax liability drops to $0. Is my understanding incorrect?
That may be the case today. But when I left a quarter century ago, it wasn’t like that. I don’t remember the specifics, but I would have ended up paying some thousands of dollars every year.
That’s an excellent argument for not living within US jurisdiction, but how is it an argument for not keeping US citizenship as an ex-pat?
A country that’s gone rogue can’t strongarm another to deport their enemy citizens living there back home if they’re not citizens no more.
I fully expect the Trump regime - or whichever new Trumpesque dictator replaces the orange buffoon when he kicks the bucket - to come after expats it deems treacherous or enemies of the state or something. I’d rather the US can’t legally demand my repatriation.
The fewer ties you have to the US, the better. It was true before, and it’s especially true now.
The other reason is, a lot of foreigners - like, a LOT - don’t particularly like Americans, even the friendliest ones. It’s easier not to be an American than having to prove you’re one of the nice ones all the time.
problematic to open foreign bank accounts as a US citizen…?
I never had any problem. But remember, it was a long time ago. Things were still pretty chill in the early 2000’s. You could literally walk into a bank and open an account in 10 minutes with any ID that looked legit 🙂 There was no KYC or anything like that, and banks mostly cared about whether you had money to deposit. I mean not quite 80’s like, but nothing like the stringent dystopia of today.
Also, I had citizenship from a EU country, so that helped.
Yeah - I recently looked into citizenship renouncement, and the hooks that are in place that I had NO IDEA existed are frankly absurd. But congrats on getting through it!!
You can’t really be stateless so I presume they had or got some other citizenship first.
You can but your life becomes one giant hell.
If you don’t have dual citizenship like I had, your best bet is to move somewhere you like, stay there for a while as a resident, then apply for citizenship there. Then depending on your destination country, that either makes you dual-citizen and you have to renounced your US citizenship explicitely, or you have dual-citizenship for that country but not for the US or vice-versa, or your US citizenship instantly becomes invalid. In all cases, if you want to stop being American, Uncle Sam will make you cough up a bunch of money. Because the US is a country of racketeers.
You absolutely CAN be stateless, and one of the primary drivers is being a refugee, amongst other things. But point taken regarding a unitedstatesian becoming stateless - it’s unlikely to have unfolded that way in this case.
Let me rephrase. It’s not advisable to be stateless when you’re trying to emigrate voluntarily.
Out for a pack of cigarettes
In this matter, Europe can not only regain credibility with regard to our value system by granting refuge to politically persecuted US citizens. It is also a real chance for Europe, because I assume that many Americans who want to leave the country are rational people who can create a counterweight to the stupor that is unfortunately spreading like a disease here too.
Just yesterday I spoke to a physicist from the US who has been working at the university in my home town for four years. Unfortunately, his employment contract is temporary and will soon expire. He still doesn’t want to return to the States because he simply doesn’t see a future there. He will stay in Europe instead, which is a real gain for us.
I’m an American leaving for Canada and I am very proud to be taking my hard work, tax paying, and consumption somewhere else. I work on the PM side of cell tower projects, and I look forward to expanding BC’s services.
America is going to lose all its best workers. And they deserve it
especially its stem advantage, now its not feasible to move to the usa as a stem major.
Same here! I’m both a skilled engineer and an artist. I’m happy to leave this shithole behind and contribute my efforts in a better land. I also have a ton of Canadian friends who are thrilled to have me back in the community.
My next steps once I get there are to get all my money out of the US
Best wishes to you on your journey!!
That sounds great! I wish you all the best and much success!
Yes, I also think that Trump and his MAGA people are doing long-lasting damage. But that’s also true: they and all the idiots who voted for them had it coming. I still feel sorry for the decent US citizens.
As a German, I’m most afraid that the AfD, a terrible party very similar to the MAGA-GOP, might come to power in our country at some point. Fortunately, this is somewhat unlikely, but if it happens, it will probably be the same for us.
My however many greats grandfather came over on the Mayflower in 1620. He too had to leave England and then the Netherlands even when it was hard, looking for a place for his family to have a future he believed in. I feel sad but I also think all things change and he would understand why I’m leaving.
I hope your country takes the threat more seriously than we did. There are a lot of broken hearts in America right now.
My however many greats grandfather came over on the Mayflower in 1620. He too had to leave England and then the Netherlands even when it was hard, looking for a place for his family to have a future he believed in.
Ok so one of my ancestors did that, too, and it’s more accurate to describe it as:
He was forced to leave England (because he was the equivalent of a MAGA back then) and then willingly left the Netherlands when they weren’t religious enough for him, either, looking for a place for his family to suppress the religious rights of others
It sucks, but that’s what the Pilgrims were about, hardcore religious oppression for everyone
The Spanish peace treaty was over. That’s why they left the Netherlands.
As much as I’d like to move to Europe or elsewhere, and I seriously considered it in 2016, I found that I’d take a severe pay cut for my industry (regardless of taxes). To stay around my current compensation, I’d most likely have to stay in the western hemisphere for remote work in the US, but I also don’t think Canada is far enough away.
I also really like my house and have invested a lot into it, so selling it right now for what it’s worth will be difficult. I don’t think I’d be able to sell it before the recession hits anyway. If it’s a depression, I’ll be screwed wherever I am.
I could go someplace in East Asia, but their companies have an awful work / life balance.
But I’m widely traveled and speak a second language at a functional level, so I feel I could live anywhere if I didn’t care about my assets or maintaining my current cost of living.
It’s a tough decision. I wish my blue region could just peacefully exit the union by vote, but I know it would only bring war.
As a kid, I used to wonder while reading history books why anyone who wasn’t a Nazi would stay in 1930s Germany. I feel like I’m answering that question in real time.
This is why I moved to South America and kept my US job. Best of both worlds. And similar timezones
Well this thread really made me grateful to be Canadian. Having said that though, I feel like we are on borrowed time and that my FOMO tells me to look for other possibilities (if not today, then eventually).
Yes. Donvict has not stopped his dementia patient babbling about “51st state”.
As time moves forward, I think more and more frequently about trying to get out of this shithole counry.
Do it before the trickle of migrants becomes a torrent and your dollar’s in the shitter.
The mental illness of MAGA won’t be removed with logic. It’ll be removed with bullets. The number of anti-vaxers who switch back to accepted science is insignificant. Trump will commit every crime before facing consequences.
I’m trying, but finding a job that’ll sponsor you isn’t easy. I could make it over there on some other visas but I’d need a job here that would let me be remote over there.
Its very easy if you are a highly skilled worker. I moved there first on a tourist visa and it took me 2 days to get a job offer.
There will surely be lots of fleeing Trump voters too and idk if we want those. I guess they wouldnt be allowed to vote here anyways so it wouldnt have an immediate effect on our already worsening political landscape.
i highly doubt they will be fleeing, but mostly the ones grifting off of trump supporters will be fleeing.
The rest of the world should do the exact opposite of American fascism; if an American tourist has anything pro-Trump posted on their public socials, reject their visa.
The MAGA mental illness is a threat to global security, and should be treated as such.
the exact opposite
It would be exactly the same thing they do tho… But yes we can not fight fire with water in this case.
One of the most selfish things I’ve ever heard was a trump voting coworker said Trump is going to make the US better for [List of reasons]. I said that Trump is actually just doing [List of obvious things he’s actually doing]. She just replied that if he does ask the dictator stuff, she’ll just leave the country.
Her implication wasn’t that purple who don’t like it should leave. She was literally saying that if trump fucks up the country, she has connections outside the US and will just dip out of the shit she caused.
Yup yup. Trump voters are the biggest wusses there are. They are Trump voters specifically because they are so weak willed.
Welcome to the club Americans. We’re too poor to give free drinks, but we can commiserate about rising prices and government corruption.
We’re gonna have to build a loooooooot of housing quickly… :/
Cowards. Stay and fight god damnit.
Fight for what? Hollywood and the propaganda media pushed you to consume hasn’t rang true since I was old enough not to believe in Santa Claus. Many adult Americans unfortunately still believe in Santa. The fight is against America capitalism spreading it’s nonsense elsewhere.
I think the US is a lost cause. The fact is, most Americans like this country the way it is. Sure, plenty of Americans don’t like Trump, but, for most of those people, if they could replace Trump but keep everything else more or less the same, they would be perfectly content to do so.
the USA slow decline was a long time coming, simply its only because STEM graduates(with graduate degrees and MDs) have emigrated to the USA to keep ahead of other nations, oh and plus the abused labor from south america to keep many business afloat. usa being a right wing country from the start, hasnt helped it either way. HCOL and certain lack of jobs have made unpalatable in some fields.
I mean, hardly any of the effects of the destruction wrought by Trump have been felt yet. Wanting to keep America the same as it was circa January is one thing; wanting to keep it how it’s going to be circa next January will be another.
