cross-posted from: https://lemm.ee/post/62625796
Everyone seems to assume that Cain is some evil murderer that killed his brother out of jealousy and sacrificed to God in vanity rather than gladness. I think that if you read the story without filling the gaps with opinion you get a much different picture.
Let’s look at Cain’s offering to God. It doesn’t say that Cain gave out of spite or anger or anything like that. It just says that Cain gave some of what he had. It doesn’t say he gave the least of what he had or the worst of what he had. Just that he gave what he had. But God favored Abels offering and not Cain’s. And that upset Cain.
Think about that for a moment. If I gave a gift to someone I cared little about and I put little effort into their gift would I be upset that they did not favor my gift? Absolutely not. But if I put a lot of effort into their gift because I cared a lot about them I would be upset if they did not favor my gift because I failed to get them something they would appreciate. I think it’s clear that Cain cared very much about offering a sacrifice that God would appreciate. And God told him in verse 7 of chapter 4 to do better.
I think it’s important to note the difference between Cain’s offering and Abel’s offering. Cain gave the fruit of the ground cause that’s all he had. Abel gave from his flock. You know the difference between an animal and a plant? You can’t really love a plant the same way you love an animal. You wouldn’t count a plant as a member of the family. But an animal you can call a pet. How else can we show our love for God if not by giving up what we love? What did Cain have that he loved? He had a brother.
It’s interesting that the Bible doesn’t call Cain a murderer but instead a killer. You guys assume he’s a murderer but the truth is that we do not know. Because we have no idea what Cain and Abel talked about. It could be that Cain somehow convinced his brother to lay his life down willingly. Or maybe he is a murderer. We don’t know and we shouldn’t assume to know. But I don’t think God would go out of his way to avenge a hateful murderer. God promises to punish the one who murders Cain sevenfold. God clearly cares so much for Cain that he takes any transgression against him very very personally.
God’s not the kind of person who speaks without reason. What’s recorded is what God wants us to know for a reason. Cain’s punishment is to be a wanderer and a fugitive. But we don’t see that happen in the story of Cain. We see Cain settle in the land of nod and he founded a city where his people went on to be pretty successful. But you know who was a wanderer and a fugitive? Moses.
The story of Moses is interesting because of how much foreshadowing is in the story. Such as Exodus 2:14. Or when Moses came down the mountain with the tablets and out of anger broke the tablets which foreshadowed his breaking of the law which kept him from inheriting the promised land.
But what about the second time he came down the mountain and he kept the law and his face shown like the sun. If the first time foreshadowed his failure to inherit the promised land then the second time must be foreshadowing a return of Moses and Moses being successful in inheriting the promised land. The promised land being heaven. I believe Cain is Moses and Moses and his wife to be, are the two witnesses (I can talk more about why the other witness is a woman in another post if you’d like).
I also believe that Jesus and Abel are the same person. Jesus calls himself son of Man and Adam means man. So if Jesus is the son of Adam it makes sense that he would be Abel. Now you might argue that the term son of Man isn’t meant to be taken literally. To which I ask would you say the same about Isaiah 7:14 where it says the Messiah will be called Immanuel which means “God with us”? If Immanuel is the literal title of Jesus then why not “son of Man”?
I think it would make for a very poetic story. Cain goes from claiming that he isn’t his brother’s keeper to being his brother’s keeper.
Another interesting link between Jesus and Abel is the consequence of their deaths. The Jews were cursed to be wanderers and fugitives after crucifying Jesus. While the Christians inherit protection from death because of the sacrifice of Jesus. Just like how Cain was punished to be a wanderer and fugitive for killing his brother. But also protected from death because of the death of his brother. It seems that Cain played both the role of Jew and Christian.
I think the most important thing to know about Cain is that he seemed to care very much about being a father. When creating his city he could have sought honor and glory for himself by naming his city after himself. But instead he named his city after his son.
As I said earlier I don’t believe God speaks pointlessly. Genesis 4:7 God tells Cain he must rule over sin. Like it’s a purpose that belongs solely to him. Could Cain be the restrainer referenced in 2 thessalonians 2:7 who oppresses lawlessness? And it says that the lawless one will not be revealed until the restrainer is taken away. The book of revelation paints a pretty clear picture of the anti Christ not being revealed until the two witnesses are killed and resurrected.
That’s all I have to say about Cain. I should note that these insights come not from me but from God. So what do you think?
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Or (And I’m sorry for taking the Copypasta seriously) the whole thing is a metaphor on Agriculture vs Pastoralism and God’s favouring the Pastorialists. Of course the story is from the Jahwist source and the original Jahwist groups that came into contact with the Elohists to become Proto-Yahwism were hardcore pastoralists from south-east of the Canaanite heartlands, so the whole thing is basically a “I have portrayed you as the soy virgin” scene.
Difficult to be hard on Cain for taking rejection badly - imagine there only is and only has ever been 5 sapient creatures in existance, one of them is GOD, and he goes out of his way to point out how much he loves your brother and hates you. There’s no “we’ll get 'em next time” and certainly no “plenty of fish in the sea.”
The real ass GOD and every people who have EVER lived think you suck. Hard to underreact to that
Uhh I didn’t really follow most of that, but Cain and Abel are both fine.
Cain has slightly better growths but his E rank in lances means he can’t use javelins (easily fixable). Ultimately, there’s no reason you can’t have two cavaliers, and neither unit is “bad” by any stretch of the imagination.
he only gets good pills of course he isn’t bad
i think its hilarious u kids talking shit about cain. u wouldnt say this shit to him at lan, hes jacked. not only that but he wears the freshest clothes, eats at the chillest restaurants and hangs out with the hottest dudes. yall are pathetic lol.
Thank you John Steinbeck, very nice.
Herman?
Demands meat, hates vegetables. Is God the original
?(According to the Bible, absolutely)
Explains a lot if old testament god was on benzos.
God’s not dead, he’s in a medically induced coma to get off klonopin.
I find shoestring logic fandom headcanon theories endearing and I’ve been waiting a long time for there to be someone who approaches the bible the same way people on tumblr drove themselves to madness over like trying to predict the ending to Sherlock or whatever. I’m really happy this guy finally exists, just doing “Maybe it was all a dream, maybe Harry was hallucinating being a wizard because he was on the brink of death, maybe Rey is Mace Windu’s daughter” but for the bible. This rules
Also had to copy-paste my own answer so I don’t feel like I wasted my time trying to dunk on someone that got banned by another instance’s admin team.
I spent my entire breakfast time formatting this just to try and call them a fucking heretic if they questioned my story as the literal word of God telling me so.
Here is the true story of the Dark Father, Caine as was told to me by God herself in my slumber last night before awaking me with an earthquake to spread the truth.
Here, God (depicted as female), the elohim (angels), and the world they created are all already in existence together as the narrative begins.
Man (Adam) and Woman (presumably Eve in this context) are created by God and the angels as a gift for one another.
God orders the angels to betray Her, forcing choice upon them for the first time. Lucifer, through the act of ultimate loyalty, leads the subsequent rebellion against Heaven.
Four angels (Ahrimal, Belial, Lailah and Usiel) gather, and the Light (Lucifer) appears before them. Following the Great Debate that ensues, Ahrimal and Belial join with Lucifer, while Lailah and Usiel remain loyal to God.
Lucifer demands that Man, Woman, and their two sons choose sides. Adam, Eve, and Caine choose to side with Lucifer, while Abel remains loyal to God.
The Fall, both of Man and of Lucifer’s rebellious angels. The Age of Wrath begins.
At the start of the Age of Wrath, two-thirds of angels and one-quarter of humanity remain loyal to God; the rest are with Lucifer. The reference to humanity at large implies that the human race has already begun to multiply beyond just Adam, Eve, Caine and Abel.
Strife from the War creates discord among humanity and in Creation as a whole for the first time.
All of humanity suffers in this new world. Those loyal to Lucifer suffer all the more for knowing that they have left God’s grace, while those who remain loyal are comfortably ignorant of their own suffering. By now, humanity has grown to the extent that there are tribes of both loyal and rebellious mortals.
Caine gave a gift to himself: the gift of delusion. A gift who’s geis can only be broken by the caster himself.
Caine through what he believed was the act of ultimate love makes a gift to God; the gift is the sacrifice of his brother Abel, and the act of sacrifice is the first murder. The truth was that he hated his brother but deluded himself to believe otherwise through his geis.
God rejects Caine’s gift, and in turn, he rejects Her. As Caine speaks against Her, both humans and angels listen. Through him, they learn of deception and murder.
Having learned deception from Caine, rebel angels demand that humans pay homage to them instead of God. They call themselves gods, and earn the epithet of demons.
The angels-turned-demons usurp the Divine Lores of the loyal angels by devouring them.
God sends his angels to forgive Caine, but Caine rebuffs the offer. His rejection of God’s messengers bars Caine from the sun’s light, from peace, and from death.
God’s angels rout the demons, slaughtering an equal number of the Fallen and punishing their human followers in turn.
God creates new forces of fire, wind, and the wild to seek out and eradicate the demons.
The demons, having been defeated, create a haven for those human souls that had been forcibly disembodied by the Fallen; this refuge will come to be known as the Shadowlands, or Hell as we colloquially know today.
The demons in their defeat are cursed by God, and the Abyss is created as their prison for all eternity.
The angels leave the human world, and one-fourth of the host have Fallen and been imprisoned; humanity begins to forget their false gods. The numbers of those trapped in the Abyss are four times higher than the previous numbers would suggest, as four loyal angels were also bound in the Abyss.
As millenia pass, humans eventually rediscover and choose to invoke the names and powers of the angels and demons.
Caine, the nomad cursed with eternal undeath, wandered the lands restlessly. On his endless journey he would find humans from whom he would see in them a reflection of himself. Upon each of those he saw himself he in his unending delusion offered to them his curse as a gift and accepted those who drank his cursed blood as his children as they could no longer walk in God’s light of Day.
Caine, eventually seeing the angels and demons gone during his nomadic wandering, sets himself up as a king with his cursed children of thirteen at his side.
Some humans, upon death, choose not to go on to the unknown afterlife but instead linger in the Shadowlands, trapped in what had been initially made to be a refuge.
The souls in the Shadowlands are influenced by Oblivion, which God had given as a final respite to the Fallen; this influence splits the soul into two parts, the Psyche and Shadow. The disembodied Ego and the Id of the dead.
Caine, king of the Cainites, summons wraiths from the Shadowlands. Others come to learn how to summon up those from the Shadowlands and, in time, from the Abyss.
The first five Earthbound demons, the Archdukes, are summoned from the Pit unto the Earth. Caine raises up his great city; when his children go to war, he curses them. Gaia creates the Garou in response to these threats, but the children of Luna suffer without the sister of Solaris they slew in the War of Rage. Mankind goes to war with itself, unprecedented in cruel barbarity to their fellow man…
In the war, man discovered how invoke the debasement of life and death through necromatic rituals, the children of Caine’s hunger for war with the rest of mankind turned to self-consuming rage, and the corruption of the highest arts of Man born from the mixing of angels blood with their own into infernalism, all of these acts would prompt God to inundate the Earth with the Great Deluge of Water.
The various surviving peoples scattered across the Earth recover: first the Jews under Noah’s guidance, then the aboriginal Australians, then the Native Americans, then the Asians of the Middle Kingdom, and finally the Africans. Nearly all of the knowledge of antediluvian humanity has been lost as God in her infinite wisdom cleansed the earth with sacred water.
The Kingdom of Caine was cleansed from the world. Caine, self-proclaimed king, himself vanished from the face of the earth as the flood came crashing down but in the whispers of the trees and the mountains it is said that he still wanders the earth, slowly coming to the realization of his follies.
The Children of Caine, those who drank of his blood in acceptance of his cursed covenant, they who burn in the sun’s light, are barred from peace from without and within, and from gift of death, hide within the darkness masquerading themselves as though they are still our fellow man but feast upon our hearts blood.
Lo and hear the true story of Caine!
This is anti-antedeluvian propaganda you Sabbat scum!
I feel like I have walked in on obscure ancient theological drama I am not equipped to understand in the slightest
That’s all I have to say about Cain. I should note that these insights come not from me but from God. So what do you think?
I mean, who am I to argue with God I guess?
That poster had some very detailed personal dogmatism. I was actually kind of impressed with their adherence to their nonsense.
Is there any way to read the removed comments? Are they in the modlog?
When I look in there I just see the ban and I’d like to read his madness.
Doesn’t look like it; you’re definitely missing something, but it wasn’t really backed up beyond “god told me personally” so there wasn’t enough interesting theology to really sink one’s teeth into.
Hexbears: don’t believe things you hear about communist states unless it comes from the source
Also Hexbears: don’t believe stuff about deities when it comes from the source
smh my damn head
Yeah, I figured. I caught a little of it but didn’t have time to read through the entire thread so I kinda missed it.
My favorite part of that whole saga was the justification of their prophecy/perspective on cain resting on the sound of the name “cain” (as westerners pronounce it today) happening to be a homophone of the english “cane”
The entire premise of the post (and English-descended Protestantism) is that the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament were written simultaneously in English for an English speaking audience. He says New Testament figures are the same as Old Testament figures because of reasons that only track homophonically in the English language.
On one comments he said that the bible is meant to be read in english because “english is the main language in the end times” and his evidence for that is that there are some puns in the bible that kind of work in english.
God predicted the rise of the Engl*sh and their hand in the coming anthropogenic climate apocalypseProtestantism was a mistake
The entire premise of the post (and English-descended Protestantism) is that the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament were written simultaneously in English for an English speaking audience
at first I
but are you for real?
Based solely on my memory of reading the comments last night (OP was aggressively replying to every single comment, which I assume led to the post removal) OP kept tying the old and new testament together sort of like they are doing with characters from Genesis and Jesus in the post above but moreso. I’ve heard protestants say that they believe that the King James version of the bible is literally the word of god (to the exclusion of all other version of the Christian bible) even though the guy who commissioned the committee to come up with the draft put his name on it.
i noticed they made a comment about Israel too. That it’s called Israel because “God is real” aka it sounds like that in English
based on some of their comments about numbers I think they might just be unwell.
how else is cain pronounced? is there more emphasis on the i? just curious
is there more emphasis on the i?
Yes! In Hebrew (and so I assume its relatives and ancestors), it’s pronounced more as kayin (qaː.jiːn) than kane
Me llamo Tim Kaine
cool! i like how that sounds!
Could it be that the people writing the story were pastoral and viewed agrarians negatively? No, God personally told me that it’s set up for a marvel movie show down
Personally, I thought it was pretty fucked up when he kept betraying Cecil and flipping to Golbez’s side. We get it, you want to bang Rosa – you can’t use hypnosis as an excuse here because a hypnotist can’t get you to do something that you don’t already want to do.
At least he helped out on the Zemus/Zeromus battle.
He was done so dirty, shame he didn’t get his own trial chamber to become like a holy dragoon or some shit.
