I have two degrees in philosophy. I quit my PhD with an MA after I realized academic life wasn’t for me.

When people find this out about me… they rarely react positivity anymore. Most are confused, some look upset, others get defensive or crack cliche jokes about how I got a job with a useless degree like that or if I work at McDonalds.

It seems to have gotten way worse the past few years. In my late 20s/early 30s people seemed to react a lot more positively to this fact about my life? People would ask me about it and why I did it and what I studied specifically. I really liked those conversations.

I feel naive as to why philosophy is so controversial for the average person, anymore than English or History is? I really enjoyed my studies and still do them as a hobby now.

  • shawn1122@sh.itjust.works
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    3 days ago

    I think Western capitalist culture has slowly eroded the value of thinking in favor of doing and, through gradual financial coercion via the International Monetary Fund, this has slowly become the global dominant worldview.

    In other words, you were born a few centuries too late for philosophy to be valued. Even in the past it was often met with scrutiny (though often commanded respect).

    Nowadays thinkers are expected to ascend corporate ladders and embed themselves within instituions with the ultimate goal of extracting excess capital beyond ones needs from said institutions. That is what the current global value system supports.

    • AA5B@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      I have college age kids and there’s been a lot of talk among their peers about whether college is still worth it, but expected financial return is their only criteria

      They’ve definitely bought into the stereotype that most people don’t need a college education and maybe that’s true from a simple comparison of job tasks. However I try to point out that it’s been a lot of years since a high school education became expected and society has gotten much more complicated. Wider knowledge base and ability to think critically are vital in modern society. It’s about time we raised the base education from 12 years to 14

  • shaggyb@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    BUT HOW DO JOB WIF HUMAMBNETEES DUGREE?

    That’s basically why.

    I think it’s cool as hell. We all need to read philosophy. I really wish I’d had the bandwidth to do something similar along with my own chosen path. Mad respect.

    • WhatGodIsMadeOf@feddit.org
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      3 days ago

      I just want to consume media and buy things that don’t have any extension to the raw experience of what it actually is to be human. I want to be a product, not a real human. And I’ll pay taxes for people to kill other people to ensure I have the freedom to do so. /S

  • Perspectivist@feddit.uk
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    5 days ago

    For a layperson, philosophy doesn’t have an obvious practical application. They think philosophers just sit around pondering esoteric topics and can’t imagine why anyone would pay them for it.

    • Kizzie@thelemmy.club
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      5 days ago

      I like the philosophy but I also don’t understand why anyone could pay for it. IG, It’s like chess, only top players & teachers earn money from it.

      • reliv3@lemmy.world
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        5 days ago

        It’s not about the content, but rather the skills gained when becoming an expert on the content. For example, physics degrees are often sought after in the financial realm because of they’re expert ability to model things with mathematics.

        Philosophers are generally expert thinkers, writers, and debaters. Not a lot of jobs are hiring philosophers for their content knowledge, but instead, they’re hired for their skills.

    • Hupf@feddit.org
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      5 days ago

      philosophers just sit around pondering esoteric topics

      CEO material?

  • Adverse_Reaction@anarchist.nexus
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    5 days ago

    Here is a quote, taken slightly out of context, that I believe speaks to what you are experiencing:

    “The clinical picture of a person who has been reduced to elemental concerns of survival is still frequently mistaken for a portrait of the survivor’s underlying character.” - World Health Organization. (May 31, 2016). ICD-11 Beta Draft (Joint Linearization for Mortality and Morbidity Statistics).

    Extrapolating from that in this other context, we can assume more and more people are simply losing their capacity to entertain “loftier” ideals than immediate survival. For all too many, there was never any other choice.

    I studied philosophy at university in the 80’s, and remember the endless jokes about what restaurant job I would be able to get with my degree, etc. It speaks to the hidden framework of capitalism that confines us all. It’s only gotten worse in my lifetime.

    I look back at my parents, who were able to buy their own house and raise two kids with a single earner, blue collar wage. My mom did eventually work as well, which allowed us children to go to college.

    Now I am close to retirement, and I have nothing to show for it. No house, no car, no big retirement payout waiting. I ‘squandered’ my money and time being an activist and humanitarian, living in the moment and refusing to produce or hoard wealth for the capitalist machine just because.

    I try to use my philosophical insight as a practical methodology to remove myself from the clamor for crumbs. I am a minimalist, an environmentalist, a gardener, a handyman and helper, a teacher - a papa smurf to my community and philosopher to my peers. I wouldn’t trade it for all the money in the world, but I would be remiss to ignore the looming economic circumstances that threaten the future of humanity, myself included.

    But I will forge ahead into this wilderness. As Deleuze and Guattari would say, forget reading someone else’s map, become your own cartographer. Philosophy is a great basis for profound understanding of the human condition. It won’t make you rich, and it certainly won’t be respected or understood in this modern world - but it will enrich you. If you follow your heart it can show you a path through the madness that does not require that you shed your humanity or reduce yourself to that of an economic survivor, victor, or victim, and can serve as a beacon for others less fortunate to have been afforded such a perspective.

    I often share the story of Taigu Ryōkan, the Zen Master, who perfectly illustrates both the value of philosophical introspection, and it’s liberating effect from the confines of the material world.

    https://laspina.org/the-thief-and-the-moon-a-zen-tale-in-ryokans-haiku/

    • HakunaHafada@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      …we can assume more and more people are simply losing their capacity to entertain “loftier” ideals than immediate survival.

      This was my thinking as well, along with people not wanting the possibility of reflecting on their own life/morals/values/etc. in the face of something else that they haven’t been confronted with.

    • Lumisal@lemmy.world
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      I wouldn’t trade it for all the money in the world, but I would be remiss to ignore the looming economic circumstances that threaten the future of humanity, myself included.

      In fairness, if you had all the money in the world you’d probably be able to prevent the looming economic circumstances the world if facing

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    4 days ago

    Philosophers are always the first targets of anti-intellectuals. People genuinely believe that studding what’s true about the world is a waste of time.

    You can tell that this is a prejudice because the same people who think you shouldn’t get paid for having useless knowledge will still hire economists.

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    I’ll be real with you: philosophy seems like a bougie thing to major in.

    It’s something you major in when you have a cushion that allows it.

    Most people don’t have that cushion, so they get mad when they see someone who does use it.

    • TimewornTraveler@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      it’s true. remember even Athens functioned on the back of slavery

      I didn’t really have a cushion besides being American though. but that was enough

  • dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works
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    I personally think anybody here saying your negative response is because people hate thinkers or anti intellectualism or whatever is totally missing the point. Those things are certainly true. But probably not why you get weird looks.

    Probably it’s a combination of 2 things:

    1. In 2025 philosophy, English, history, poetry, etc are to greater or lesser extents “hobby degrees”. People enjoy the topics generally but don’t see a way to repay loans using that degree, because if you’re not going to go teach it or write the next book, there’s no money in it. These are things we do with our free time for the love of it.

    2. By extension of 1, if you CAN have one of these degrees you either a) have a boatload of money, b) you must be naive of the fact (according to people you are talking to) that your job prospects are very limited, or c) you have extreme aptitude to be part of the small group that can make it, but everybody will still limp you into b.

    I have a friend who majored in music in college, but not to teach: it was specifically to play timpani. He also was perplexed at the negative reactions he would get. Unfortunately right before he graduated someone told him that there are only like 10 professional concert timpanist positions in the country that provide a salary you can live from, and the rest just moonlight and have other jobs. After 1 year if hunting a good position he sold his drums and got a job in marketing selling windows and siding.

    Of course the world would be less vibrant without professionals in these areas, but there are a lot more philosophy majors working in, say, marketing than there are Humes, Kants, Socrateses, Hegels, and so on.

    Basically it doesn’t look practical so it seems like either a bad financial choice or that you’re a spoiled rich kid unless you mention “double major” type stuff.

  • PonyOfWar@pawb.social
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    5 days ago

    Just speculating here, but I think the economic situation becoming much more difficult for many people might be a factor. When it’s hard finding a decent job even after studying something “good”, spending years of your life and possibly lots of money on a degree with no immediate economic benefits might seem like quite a ridiculous luxury.

    • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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      My guess is that due to the economic situation and also climate crisis situation, people do more things they don’t feel comfortable with morally, and so when you’re the guy who thinks about what’s morally right or wrong, your existence confronts them with their wrongdoing.

      So, it’s their own actions they don’t like, but they can just not think about it until you show up.

      That’s my pet theory anyways. Being clean-edge and vegan, I’ve had that experience a lot…

      • arality@programming.dev
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        3 days ago

        Hey fuck you pal, I’m gonna do even more drugs and every meal is now steak and bacon. Just to offset your shitty behavior.

        Why do some people double down? It makes no sense, like it’s okay to disagree. That’s it. That’s all that needs to happen, if you don’t wanna engage or think about a topic. How wild of a statement. I’m going to be an antoginist in your life on purpose, just to spite you, for showing me who I really am.

        • Ephera@lemmy.ml
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          Yeah, that is precisely why I assume they don’t feel secure in their own standing, because it would be trivial to say “you do you” and continue doing what they feel is right. It’s not like I’m attacking them, just stating what my choice is.

  • chuckbridge@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    Well, there’s an anti-intellectual streak in the world. And, given the cultural trends of the last 20 years, it’s not getting smaller. So there’s that. Deep down some people will think you think you’re better than them. Deep down some people might be touchy about touchy about their level of education and tired to being lied and condescended to by people presenting themselves as cultural authorieies.

  • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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    5 days ago

    “The arts are useless and will make you a poor stupid leftist… Do a trade” <----- type of statemet that has been doing the rounds on the far-right since at least 2014.

    • Alsjemenou@lemy.nl
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      4 days ago

      Not just the far right. Also was a staple in the new-atheist movement, their conviction was that science had solved all big dillemas already. Just a few minor details to work out. And they have been far more influential.

      • DarkCloud@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        Yeah their offense about Atheism Plus really does seem to mirror later movements in gamergate and the far right in general.

        Haven’t looked at that before. Thanks.

    • tuckerm@feddit.online
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      ^ this is probably the right answer here. Philosophy became the token academic discipline that is used to mock the idea of being educated. It had been going around for a while as a joke, but then became a more serious cultural wedge at some point, like around 2014 as you said. To me, it looked like it accelerated and became mainstream when Marco Rubio said “plumbers make more money than philosophers” in a Republican debate in 2015. (That is false, too: https://www.forbes.com/sites/katiesola/2015/11/11/rubio-welders-philosophers/)

  • HubertManne@piefed.social
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    3 days ago

    Quality of life wise philosophy is the best. Its the basis of most everything. I would be scared as heck to be looking for work with just that though. When I had an opportunity to get a masters I picked up education partially because I was interested in it but also because its largely a mix of philosophy, psychology, and statistics. Likely as close as I could get to philosophy while still being sellable on my resume.

  • BilboBargains@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    Philosophy gets a bad rap, even by fellow academics sometimes. Commonly cited criticisms are that it has become too prosaic and detached from society at large. Maybe that’s true of some philosophers but I don’t see a problem with people studying something purely for the joy of learning and there are philosophers who do an excellent job of explaining philosophical ideas to lay audiences, Alain de Botton immediately springs to mind. Status Anxiety is among my favourite videos.

    The reality is that we have too few people who think about what it means to live a good life and make a wholesome society