LOL the Orange Turd crossed the line a long time ago when he tried to overthrow the government with his MAGAt army.
Then they elected him again. Fucking leopards I tell ya.
He was openly threathening US people, or “dissidents”. So he is basically saying in between lines, that if you rise against him, he’ll do very crazy things. This makes me hope for a Quick removal of the rot.
Oh. Okay. THIS is the crisis moment. Sure.
people still absolutely SHOCKED by fascists doing fascism
You meant ANOTHER crucial red line.
We’re running out of red ink for all these red lines being crossed.
experts are trying to convince americans to respond, but we aren’t.
Like the French Revolution, it takes a lot for a revolt. Ultimately if faces aren’t seen, it forgotten. As for republicans, if they aren’t white faces; it’s forgotten in a day or two.
Lots of us are peacefully protesting and it’s pretty hard for most of us to do anything more than that
The previous dismissals of court orders were injunctions, not rulings. That’s a contempt of court charge, not a constitutional crisis.
Today were both the first and second rulings he has openly defied. The first was refusing to return Garcia. The second was refusing to allow the AP into the Oval Office to cover the press conference.
No, this is probably the first one.
The previous one where they disobeyed a court order (turning around planes to El Salvador, stopping new planes from taking off) they successfully appealed that court order to where the Supreme Court declared that order void.
This one (facilitate the return of a wrongfully deported man) is the first one where they’ve just outright refused, and are pretending they can’t comply.
This is a big deal, and it’s unprecedented, even for Trump. This is the red line, and we’re going to see a full blown constitutional crisis this week if it doesn’t get resolved.
yeah its like a goalpost redline. Whelp its not really facism until he does x, oh well we are fine unless he gets away with y…
When ‘Yes, Prime Minister’ had a scene about salami tactics, it was referring to the Russians invading West Berlin.
It feels far more relevant to Nazi America today than the actual Russian invasion of Ukraine.
What parody are we living in?
In a true democracy that would be way beyond the red line, but in USA today, this is just another Monday.
The American people’s passiveness with regard to “red lines” is about on par with Putin’s overuse of the term. I expect a bit of whining online for 24-48 hours but no meaningful actions.
Mass organizing in the US is logistically difficult, and all our media is owned by people who want to see the protests fail so the coverage isn’t amazing. But we have millions of people protesting right now and the numbers have been growing fast. Protesters have been under threat of arrest and possible death for ages, and they’re opening it up to “get black bagged and sent to tortureville forever”. We have so much working against us even getting resistance off the ground and yeah we aren’t amazing at it, there’s a good chance we can’t pull it off, but we’re trying
Would you rather people stop dissenting online?
If dissenting online makes them feel like they are doing enough to not act IRL, yes.
Revolutions don’t just spontaneously materialize from nothing, they grow from riots, that grow from peaceful protests, that grow from people complaining to each other in social settings. None of the early steps are sufficient, but they are the type of things that are necessary for the end result. There is no world where less dissenting online leads to more direct action.
How many years does online complaining need to take place before we get to uprising? I’m just curious if we should prepare for war yesterday in Canada or next week cause complaining from Americans and not acting has been going on for multiple presidential terms now. I think Cheeto did the uprising in around 4 years if I remember correctly. It was a few groups of Nazis that led the entire thing. Nazis don’t tend to be very smart.
People dissented online a lot in Russia ten years ago
And that grew into protests and riots, so… what’s your point?
Hey guys, guess what. Authoritarianism isn’t trivial to beat. All the other authoritarian states in the world aren’t just full of lazy people who didn’t use the one simple trick. Turns out both propaganda works and a lot of people are actually scared of being murdered or sent to a gulag.
But again, you get none of that if you try to skip the first steps.
I feel like that’s unlikely and that a lot of the people dissenting online are the same ones who are protesting, calling their lawmakers, etc.
Also, it’s not like any of the IRL stuff has been effective yet anyway. Online dissent probably gets seen by more eyeballs than any one protest sign or IRL action that doesn’t end up with the person doing it being arrested or killed (and thus unable to continue resisting this administration), so if it really is an either/or situation I think online dissent is more effective than IRL peaceful protest or writing yet another letter to my lawmakers.
That all said, I really don’t think it is an either/or situation, so I think we can and should be encouraging all the kinds of dissent.
Will things ever go back to normal?
No. Even if he’s gone, the world is irrevocably changed. We’re all going together on this dark ride. The sooner people realize that, the better. Then maybe something can be done.
Your comment reads as “no, but yes if we fix it” to me. It’s that what you were trying to convey? If not, could you explain a bit please?
This is the new normal
No. “Normal” for the US was the result of you being the only major industrial power that wasn’t flattened during World War II. You maintained your power since then by using the leverage you’d acquired during the postwar years. Now that that leverage is gone, it’s staying gone, since the rest of the world has rebuilt itself.
Societies change, as often for the worse as they do for the better. It also depends what you consider “normal”. For many boomers growing up in the 50’s and 60’s this is fairly normal. We’ve used to shoot students protesting an actual invasion against Vietnam.
And then there are still a lot of immigrants here who fled really bad dictatorial shit holes. They look at headlines going “ICE deported 300 people this week” and go “It’s not even a thousand and they were not gunned down in the streets and their families exterminated, what are you complaining about?”. Perspective.
Fight it however you can, or don’t.
You’re going to have to be more specific…
No.
When he deports a citizen who is immediately killed in prison, that’s a red line.
And even then only if he’s white, and Christian enough.
These are red lines of unacceptable behavior and policy, not the lines marking when Americans will actually pay attention. And even if what you describe were to happen, all the Trump supporters would just come up with excuses, while others would protest through the usual channels and be ignored.
I don’t think that would do mit either. Not even if it’s a pregnant woman.
It will be deflected, as the prisons fault, and Trump will continue to send pregnant women without a second thought.It’s all boiling a frog. If he did that day one it would be over the line and cause response. Each step along the way that is eventually accepted makes the next step easier, which enables the one after that and so forth. They deported “criminals” not legally in the country with little protest, they faced little pushback when it turned out they weren’t criminals, so they then moved on to those who are here legally. And as this is becoming mundane they’re laying the groundwork for it to be citizens.
The only line they have is what the people will tolerate, and they’re expanding that day by day.
