Summary:

  • @[email protected] was posting at a high volume to [email protected]
  • there is no written rule on [email protected] about post volume
  • there is no written rule on ponder.cat about post volume
  • !news is the one single community Cat was this active in
  • !news has no ponder.cat mods
  • from my understanding, all rules Cat did break were unrelated to volume (correct me if I am wrong)
  • ponder.cat admin @[email protected] reaches out to Cat via comment and then DM essentially threatening account deletion if Cat doesn’t lower their activity level
  • Cat understandably deletes their account because who wants that

Of course, PhilipTheBucket had the right to do this, but I also think it’s exceedingly bad form and people have a right to know that this admin is willing to go above the community mods’ head like that.

Internet etiquette has dictates for dealing with undesirable yet not rule-breaking behavior that was just ignored here. Communication should be chosen before simple fist waving and threats.

I agree with this comment that this is a bait-provoked reaction. Next time I recommend:

  • at the instance/admin level, the creation of instance rules about volume
  • at the community level, advocacy for community rules about volume (i.e. “[Meta] Petition: Limit daily submissions to !news to ensure community quality”)
  • avoid personal slapfights to get your way
  • avoid escalation directly to account termination threats

Source: https://ponder.cat/post/1731587

  • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
    0·
    21 days ago

    BPR. This could have been handled better but I don’t think that the admin was powertripping.

    EDIT: I’m changing my take to YDI / UDI (user deserved it). See discussion with the admin, his usage of power was 100% justified.

    IMO what Philip did wrong:

    • the issue was in a single community, so he should’ve let that community’s mods handle it. If the user was doing this shit across multiple communities it would be different.
    • lack of transparency on what’s considered [un]acceptable behaviour for ponder.cat users. A single “be nice” would be enough to justifiably get rid of Cat.
    • direct escalation, like OP said. Philip’s initial comment lecturing Cat doesn’t sound like an admin speaking officially; but when he does, it pops out of nowhere.

    In the meantime, look at all Cat’s replies in the linked thread: the user is not just being spammy, they are being uncooperative, belittling other users, and passive aggressive. This sort of behaviour should not be given a free pass, and I do think that, if Philip dug across Cat’s post/comment history, he would find more reasons to ban the user from his instance… at least if his instance had some rule against poor behaviour.

    Internet etiquette has dictates for dealing with undesirable yet not rule-breaking behavior that was just ignored here.

    A lot of those dictates boil down to “report, ignore, move on”. Reporting would do nothing, and ignoring would be bad advice - because bad behaviour tends to spread. Eventually you aren’t just blocking a single person, but a whole lot… or leaving the space because why bother. As such, users in communities with lax moderation tend to monitor each other’s behaviour a bit, and this is not a bad thing.

    • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat
      0·
      22 days ago

      If the user was doing this shit across multiple communities it would be different.

      They absolutely were. See my longer comment elsewhere in the thread.

      I don’t plan to weigh in all that much here, among other reasons because I feel like it’s mostly all been said about this situation at this point.

      Other random response: Mine is a tiny instance (basically a glorified self-host), I was well aware of the context of what Cat was doing, partly because I was steadily getting reports about it. This was just the one situation that led me to decide something actually had to be done, or else I was enabling them to pollute the wider community in ways that the wider community was really being vocal that they didn’t want.

      The hostility and belittling of other users who were telling them to cool it really rubbed me the wrong way also, yes. I left them alone initially because I thought maybe they were just sort of clueless about good participation on Lemmy but at the end of the day, what’s the harm, and it’s the mods’ business not mine. Once people are trying to have a reasonable conversation with you and you’re being hostile and snarky at them, your benefit-of-the-doubt level drops to a whole new type of category.

      • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
        0·
        21 days ago

        I was steadily getting reports about it.

        I just saw it. Yup, it changes the picture quite a bit since consistent behaviour justifies your intervention.

        The leftover matter is then just “telegraphing” to users that you don’t consider this acceptable, and you don’t want to see it from your instance. OP suggested a rule against posting volume, but perhaps this is too specific? This could be even handled through small tweaks of the description text of your instance:

        All are welcome to this instance. Please no illegal content, no personal attacks, no spam, no misinformation, no bigotry. Other than that, go nuts. Be productive, polite, and reasonable.

        or something like this.

        Half-related, from the other thread:

        I wasn’t expecting “making sure we make a safe space for the spammers by banning people who complain about spam” to be an important moderation duty, but I guess in the bizarro world that is [email protected] moderation philosophy, it makes perfect sense.

        LW in a nutshell: “if you complain about harmful behaviour, you’re the one getting screeched at”. It feels like they’re trying their hardest to transform Lemmy into Reddit 2: Electric Boogaloo.

        • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat
          0·
          21 days ago

          All are welcome to this instance. Please no illegal content, no personal attacks, no spam, no misinformation, no bigotry. Other than that, go nuts. Be productive, polite, and reasonable.

          Done. I think it’s a good suggestion. I left “polite” out, since I am often impolite to people and I don’t think “you have to be friendly all the time” is a necessary rule for human life, but all the rest of it, I added.

          Maybe I am overcorrecting, since I’ve notice that my own interactions are markedly improved now that I am making a specific effort to be polite in my own interactions, but on the whole I really don’t like how on the modern internet you have to be “civil” in all interactions even if what the other person’s doing warrants a certain level of incivility. I think it’s fair game to say something like “what the fuck are you talking about” even if that is not strictly speaking all that polite a thing to say.

          LW in a nutshell: “if you complain about harmful behaviour, you’re the one getting screeched at”. It feels like they’re trying their hardest to transform Lemmy into Reddit 2: Electric Boogaloo.

          Yeah. Some people in the other thread were saying that they get the distinct impression that the mods are deliberately trying to make a space for propaganda, and I think it’s a pretty compelling argument TBH.

  • Ledivin@lemmy.world
    0·
    22 days ago

    Same admin that asked if he was in the wrong for banning someone that reported a comment that he thought was fine. Response was basically unanimous that he was in the wrong.

    Naturally, he doubled down and decided that he was absolutely in the right. I blocked him and the instance and am definitely happy with that choice.

    In the linked thread here, the admin even says “This is a super weird and authoritarian philosophy,” when someone called out the bans as power tripping 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 because e-stalking people and banning them for participating in other communities is absolutely not authoritarian at all

      • Universal Monk@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
        0·
        17 days ago

        Also, Phillip complains about people posting a lot, when he’s posts a shit ton too. I see his fucking name almost more than any other name.

        As a result of him posting so fucking much, I accidently replied to one of his posts and he lost his shit and accused me of ban evasion. He reached out to mods, admin, asking people for supported, etc. Even tho I’m not banned from the instance or the community that I commented in. lol

        Actually Phillip complains a lot about a lot of things. lol

  • lemonmelon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    0·
    22 days ago

    After the exchange I’ve had with spujb in this thread, I’m convinced of their bad-faith intentions for posting it. In that comment chain, I told them that I had not reported the thread for removal, which is still true at the time of this comment. However, let it be noted that the post is in violation of the sidebar rules, specifically

    • Post only about bans or other sanctions that you have received from a mod or admin.

    and

    • Don’t harass mods or brigade comms. Don’t word your posts in a way that would trigger such harassment and brigades.

    No sanction was imposed on spujb, they are fully a third-party to this matter. Their post title and body is deliberately inflammatory towards @[email protected] and ponder.cat as a whole.

    Additionally, the post runs afoul of a post guideline:

    1. Provide a screenshot of the relevant modlog entry (don’t de-obfuscate mod names).

    This post has all the markings of a punitive reaction by sbujb to criticism (both direct and via downvotes) levied against them in another thread on this comm. I am aware that this very comment could read that way as well; my justification is that I attempted to communicate directly with OP, whose response was the equivalent of sticking their fingers into their ears and singing off-key, loudly, while running away.

    In the event that I do make a formal report, I will use the preceeding text of this comment, and update the comment to indicate that I’ve done so. Absent that, any action taken on the post will be for reasons that do not involve a report from me.

    This community should be a tool against mod/admin authority and abuse, not a weapon to settle a grudge.

  • lemonmelon@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
    0·
    22 days ago

    (Y)DI + this is an unmarked [META] post + no admin action was taken against the account + history of behavior + it looks silly to make a wholeass new thread after getting cratered to oblivion in the original one

    Phil’s “mistake”, if we’re insisting there is one, was not approaching the account-hopper with “You post a lot, and most of it is questionable trash. Please don’t shovel shit from this instance anymore if you want to remain.”

    • PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat
      0·
      22 days ago

      Phil’s “mistake”, if we’re insisting there is one, was not approaching the account-hopper with “You post a lot, and most of it is questionable trash. Please don’t shovel shit from this instance anymore if you want to remain.”

      That’s actually exactly what I did. You’ll note that OP’s complaint is that they describe that as “threats.” No sanction was ever given to the person who was spamming (“posting at a high volume”). We just talked with them, and the consensus was overwhelmingly that they needed to cool down, and then they deleted their account.

      Here’s the conversation where it happened (what’s left of it, see next link): https://ponder.cat/post/1728396

      I don’t have a lot to add to the conversation that already took place here: https://ponder.cat/post/1731587

      It’s made a little bit more complex because there’s a separate issue of [email protected] mods not really reacting to propaganda-spammy users, and so I decided there was an issue with this user when the mods were saying there was not. The behavior was in no way limited to [email protected] though. I’ve seen reports for them in:

      And so on, I think you get the point. Several of their posts had been removed before from a variety of communities, because they were spamming and posting low-quality crap. I can’t show you in the modlog because they deleted their user, but they were a source of reports for a while. I was leaving it alone for the mods to handle, until it became clear that the community overwhelmingly considered them a source of negativity. Then I talked with them about it (not for the first time) and explicitly said that they needed to stop in order to keep their account. It just happened randomly that the post where it came to a head happened in a community with bad moderation (which, possibly, explains why the post stayed up for us to be able to have an argument about it in the comments).

      I think most of the issue motivating this post is that I riled up OP by being kind of sarcastic with them. That part’s on me and maybe it would have been better for me to be more zen. But as far as the original situation, IDK what the expected reaction could possibly be, other than what I did.

    • spujb@lemmy.cafeOPEnglish
      0·
      22 days ago

      This is a separate issue entirely. The fact the admin got “ahead of the bullet” by making a PTB post about the reaction to their action doesn’t mean they are magically immune from discussion of the actions that started things, that being slapfights and direct account termination threats.