i won’t give a cry for fascists getting banned.
Romania pointing the way on how to handle fascism. The only thing democracy can’t tolerate is autocracy, and should therefore act on it. And they have some experience in this regard.
Take my upvote Romania!
If you think this is an effective way to fight fascism id suggest you read some books into the history of fascism
Obviously the most effective way to fight fascism is to elect fascist government and wait until fascists show their incompetence as a governing party, while established institutions and system of checks and balances is ensuring the integrity of next elections, so the fascists will be gone once and for all after a single term.
Let me quote something here
If you think this is an effective way to fight fascism id suggest you read some books into the history of fascism
It’s not ideal, but we’re pretty fucking far from ideal.
The Romanian electoral commission did that. I’m sure they had their reasons - the article cites “statements contradictory to democratic values” (last November) and Russian interference. I guess they have something to back that up with. The Guardian does not say, but until someone convinces me otherwise (edit: that will be really hard after me reading this) I will give the electoral commission the benefit here.
This is government at work. If they really wanted to suppress democratic voices they’d not go about it in a way that just gives free publicity to her and better chances to the remaining far-right candidate.
Democracy is when every popular candidate is banned from the elections
No, democracy is when you are intolerant with the intolerant. Maybe read up on what she says/does before commenting.
It is literally ‘power by the people’
Not ‘what others decide for the people.’
But lets be honest, it’s the not being hostile to Russia that did it.
Can’t have that in a US colony where they plan to have the biggest base for their imperialist wars.
And who helped the openly fascists ukranian to power in 2014?How can you have democracy if you let people vote for a person that says he will remove all political parties? There must be checks and balances that stop you at some point. Also, Romanian law prohibits candidates with ties to fascist or extremist ideologies from participating in elections. That’s in the law, introduced by people that were democratically elected.
But lets be honest, it’s the not being hostile to Russia that did it. Can’t have that in a US colony where they plan to have the biggest base for their imperialist wars.
Sure, the US that is now serving up its allies on a silver platter to Putin? His friend Trump is going to revert sanctions any day now for that sweet oil. For power in the Middle East, maybe, but the EU is hopefully going to wake up soon and kick all American bases ASAP.
And who helped the openly fascists ukranian to power in 2014?
Firstly, the Euromaidan protests didn’t get hundreds of thousands of people attending just because they got brainwashed by the EU/US. Allegedly, Russia attempted to do the same thing in Romania with Georgescu, and only a few hundred people showed up to protest the decision to take him off the ballot. People in Ukraine felt betrayed when Yanukovych wanted to reject EU and get closer with Russia, a country that has had 146% voter turnout during one of its recent elections. Arguably, maybe the EU is not the best, but its system is way more decentralized than Russia’s, allowing better representation of its population and reducing the chance of corruption. At least we don’t hear people that are criticizing the government “randomly” falling out of windows here…
Secondly, Poroshenko was openly fascist? Or whom exactly do you mean? If I’m not mistaken, Poroshenko assigned a Jewish person as his prime minister. Or you might be hinting at the Azov Brigade being integrated by him into the national army? What would you do when Russia starts invading your country, though? Either way, you might be right that it is in the benefit of the EU (and perhaps US) to have closer ties with Ukraine, but it goes both ways. Ukraine did not like what happened in Georgia, and wanted more security and pro-democracy allies. That does not mean that the EU made Ukraine into a Nazi puppet state to fight Russia.
Jeez, what a load of garbage
To liberals “democracy” means “white imperial rule”
Let people decide. What if they want a far right leader? I dont think its good, but its people righ to have the leader they choose.
I dont think its good, but its people right to have the leader they choose.
Well, that’s all well and good in an idealistic liberalist abstract, but in reality it often leads to (and Romania’s own history did lead to) mass suffering, extermination of minorities, and getting invaded and occupied by the Soviet Union after their fascist leader Codreanu allied with Hitler. So, it’s best nipped in the bud, no matter what the majority believe.
Șoșoacă, in fact, is under investigating for commemorating Codreanu in public.
So you are against democracy. Who gets to decide the leaders then? You?
We like democracy but only when you have the same views as the current ruling power
Democracy is when you can’t vote for who represents your views. Even better if you can be shamed into voting for genocide
Yeah, let people elect a dictator! What could possibly go wrong?
I hope I’m getting where you are pointing at.
No, I don’t like how this kind of events play out but for all that is worth, it can not be allowed for groups that espouse extreme ideologies to even gather the smallest of support.
Democracy as been shown, countless times, it is a very fragile system, vulnerable to players willing to manipulate and distort it in order to achieve personal gains, at the detriment of a large majority.
These far right groups prey upon the insecurities of the masses, create and steer the exact narrative to create distrust and obfuscate real issues and preveny people, either by force or by erasure, to raise doubt or demand proof of their claims.
Let’s be tolerant, but let’s not be tolerant with those who are intolerant.
Sounds great until you remember that the current governments of Romania, Germany, France, Britain, etc. are all arming and funding Nazis in Ukraine and enabling ethnic cleansing by a genocidal apartheid occupation regime in Palestine.
it can not be allowed for groups that espouse extreme ideologies to even gather the smallest of support
but it can be allowed to give billions of Euros and tons upon tons of weaponry to swastika-tatooed Hitler worshippers bent on ethnic cleansing. It can be allowed to prop up a corrupt, kleptocratic, dictatorial regime that has cancelled elections, placed all media under state control, declared WW2 Nazi collaborators to be their national heroes, imprisons, tortures and brutally murders journalists, political opposition, people who make online posts against the government or the war, and people who just don’t want themselves or their relatives be forcibly drafted into a war against their own brothers. That can be allowed, right?
Personally i just find it extremely hypocritical to constantly talk about how much Europe loves democracy and at the same time steal an election from the candidate who was about to win it and then go on to ban that candidate, who is clearly polling far ahead of all others, from standing in the repeat elections.
The reality is that these right wingers are not being banned from elections for their extremist views (which they undoubtedly hold, i’m not saying they don’t), they are banned because they are anti-EU and want peace with Russia instead of war. That is the “extremism” that is intolerable to the Brussels bureaucrats and their comprador lackeys in the Romanian state. A leftist candidate with the same popularity and the same views toward the tyrannical EU and the self-destructive European drive to war against Russia would be treated exactly the same, if not worse.
Democracy as been shown, countless times, it is a very fragile system, vulnerable to players willing to manipulate and distort it in order to achieve personal gains, at the detriment of a large majority.
This has always been happening for as long as “liberal democracy” has existed. The worst offenders of manipulation and distortion of democracy are the mainstream media, who constantly manipulate public opinion in favor of the so-called “moderate” and “centrist” parties that have been getting elected for decades in Europe. This is also to the detriment of a large majority.
Or do you seriously believe that the policies of either the Tories or the Labor party in the UK have benefited the large majority in Britain? How about Macron in France, has he not been a detriment to the large majority of his citizens? So much so that the French voters overwhelmingly rejected his party (yet he somehow is still in charge…)? How about the SPD, CDU and Greens in Germany? How is it not to my detriment as a German citizen for them to cut social spending in favor of massive rearmament? How is it not a detriment to the large majority of Europeans for these parties to push us into a war with Russia? Why is that still allowed?
Why is it that it is not allowed to democratically vote for candidates who oppose the EU (which is a fundamentally neoliberal and highly undemocratic institution that makes it impossible for countries to have left wing economic policies and is now led by unhinged warmongering lunatics who want to pump hundreds of billons of Euros to their friends in the arms industry) and who want peace instead of war?
Giorgia Meloni in Italy is just as much a fascist sympathizer as these right wingers in Romania, but the reason why she was not treated this way is because she was willing to bend the knee to Brussels.
Are you a russian bot? You just swapped aggressor (russia) with the defender (ukraine). There are some more very wrong points (=lies ?) in your text:
- russia is doing ethnic cleansing in ukraine since 2014. Not the european countries you mentioned.
- Ukraine is invaded right now and so is under martial law. Hence votes are not possible right now. Again blame russia for this not Ukraine.
- it was decided in Romania to ban the candidate not on EU level. EU also did not ban Le Pen, Brexit, etc
- EU is not tyrannical, russia is tyrannical. Russia starts war not EU
- It is self destructive to let Russia do what it wants. To oppose russia is a self protecting measure by EU, hence it is not aggressive but rather defensive.
- regarding the media: it is mainly the polit influencers (e.g. joe rogan or other on tiktok, x, instagram, youtube) and alternativ media (e.g. RT russia today) who lie. And less the mainstream media (but also mainstream media has its problems, nothing is perfect, but your point on this topic is wrong again)
- EU is now preparing for war because it has to react on russias invasion and russias hybrid warfare (dividing the society with fake news, attack on infrastructure, killings of people on eu ground) and it also has to react on trumps threat to annex greenland and it also needs to react on possible future China aggressions, which china already declares since years. EU react even slowly and so is not pushing for war as you mentioned
- there are more contra EU parties in european countries than just the romanian one. Brexit already happened. And each country has the right to do so. EU just accepts that as it has to. Ban of romanian party was done by romanias institution not on EU level
You can use whatever words you want to describe it, but at the end of the day when we have the majority of the population voting for something you don’t want, you’re the minority. Trying to fight against the rights of the majority of the population is a dangerous battle only previously tried by authoritarian dictatorships and similar regimes.
No one seriously tried to stop these people from becoming candidates, but now they have support of the public the ruling powers oppose them.
Also worth mentioning, in Romania, political left and rights seem to be flipped. Far right wing candidates want more rights for gays, etc. So can get confusing depending on which media sources are used.
Trying to fight against the rights of the majority of the population is a dangerous battle only previously tried by authoritarian dictatorships and similar regimes.
That’s definitely not limited to authoritarian dictatorships. Seeing as you’re posting from an aussie instance, Whitlam’s dismissal comes to mind, along with lockdown laws (whether the majority approved or not).
Also worth mentioning, in Romania, political left and rights seem to be flipped.
The left-right framework just isn’t useful. As you’ve pointed out, it’s relative and changes massively between each country.
This video helps explain in more depth and proposes a more useful, effective political model: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nPVkpWMH9k
Let the majority do whatever it wants to minorities, says liberal democracy understander.
democracy dies in epicnesss
