If we’re not simultaneously acknowledging how the system also makes men feel worthless without sexual/romantic success, then yeah it comes off pretty misandrist.
Are we also forgiving men for saying they hate women because women’s lib stripped them of the dignity of being a “provider” while women largely still expect them to provide? Not that I’m saying women’s lib is wrong, it’s certainly for the best in the long term, but upsetting the system affects all parties. Excusing resulting sexism on one side, but not the other, is itself sexist.
Why do we expect men to accept being hated for things beyond their control, instead of being treated as fellow victims of a broken system?
As a man myself, I get it. We’ve been living with privilege for millennia, and the system is almost entirely the product of that privilege. The shift to women holding power, or even self-autonomy, is very recent, and they still have an uphill battle. And at every turn, men continue to fight them for it.
And every single post on this community that points out how unfair life is towards women has at least one person going “but what about men? You say the system is bad for women, but it’s bad for men too!” Which is a whole other conversation you’re trying to force on this one. And the system is built by men, so it’s still men who caused the problem!
Side-note, the system of capitalism has made it near impossible to support a family on a single income, so both man and woman (in a straight relationship) have to provide. Don’t blame this on women.
…Privilege. The answer to your question is privilege. You have been benefitting for your entire life from a system designed and supported across the centuries by men, for men. You don’t even realise how much you’ve been benefitting. Based on your first comment, you think a woman being able, or forced, to provide for herself is stripping you of dignity.
A rich man sees a poor man get robbed, and simply walks away. The poor man condemns the rich man for his apathy. The rich man argues “it’s not like I’m the one who robbed you.” But the rich man still isn’t helping.
Based on your first comment, you think a woman being able, or forced, to provide for herself is stripping you of dignity.
That’s not what I think, and it isn’t what I said. The “system” assigned gender roles: women raise children and keep house, men sell their labor to provide for the family. Women’s lib has changed the parts of that system that degraded women, while quietly ignoring the privileges women had, like not being forced to die in the wars that were much more commonplace through those centuries, for example.
I have no problems with women having the opportunity to provide for themselves, in fact I was very explicit that I think it’s good long term. The issue I raised wasn’t the abandonment of gender roles, it’s the selective abandonment of gender roles. Specifically, women who want men to fulfill the provider role while refusing to fulfill their complementary role.
Being treated as an unlimited ATM, with zero commitment or reciprocity, is degrading. I cannot count the number of women I’ve known who want to work and keep their money, but still expect men to pay for everything, while also being free to move on to a more exciting man the second the whim strikes them. That’s a new privilege.
If we’re going to hold all men emotionally responsible for the hate women feel because of the way some men treat women, it’s misandrist to not hold all women emotionally responsible for the way some women treat men.
If we’re not simultaneously acknowledging how the system also makes men feel worthless without sexual/romantic success, then yeah it comes off pretty misandrist.
Are we also forgiving men for saying they hate women because women’s lib stripped them of the dignity of being a “provider” while women largely still expect them to provide? Not that I’m saying women’s lib is wrong, it’s certainly for the best in the long term, but upsetting the system affects all parties. Excusing resulting sexism on one side, but not the other, is itself sexist.
Why do we expect men to accept being hated for things beyond their control, instead of being treated as fellow victims of a broken system?
As a man myself, I get it. We’ve been living with privilege for millennia, and the system is almost entirely the product of that privilege. The shift to women holding power, or even self-autonomy, is very recent, and they still have an uphill battle. And at every turn, men continue to fight them for it.
And every single post on this community that points out how unfair life is towards women has at least one person going “but what about men? You say the system is bad for women, but it’s bad for men too!” Which is a whole other conversation you’re trying to force on this one. And the system is built by men, so it’s still men who caused the problem!
Side-note, the system of capitalism has made it near impossible to support a family on a single income, so both man and woman (in a straight relationship) have to provide. Don’t blame this on women.
I didn’t say anything about privilege, I’m talking about hatred. Why are men supposed to accept being hated for a system they had no hand in creating?
…Privilege. The answer to your question is privilege. You have been benefitting for your entire life from a system designed and supported across the centuries by men, for men. You don’t even realise how much you’ve been benefitting. Based on your first comment, you think a woman being able, or forced, to provide for herself is stripping you of dignity.
A rich man sees a poor man get robbed, and simply walks away. The poor man condemns the rich man for his apathy. The rich man argues “it’s not like I’m the one who robbed you.” But the rich man still isn’t helping.
That’s not what I think, and it isn’t what I said. The “system” assigned gender roles: women raise children and keep house, men sell their labor to provide for the family. Women’s lib has changed the parts of that system that degraded women, while quietly ignoring the privileges women had, like not being forced to die in the wars that were much more commonplace through those centuries, for example.
I have no problems with women having the opportunity to provide for themselves, in fact I was very explicit that I think it’s good long term. The issue I raised wasn’t the abandonment of gender roles, it’s the selective abandonment of gender roles. Specifically, women who want men to fulfill the provider role while refusing to fulfill their complementary role.
Being treated as an unlimited ATM, with zero commitment or reciprocity, is degrading. I cannot count the number of women I’ve known who want to work and keep their money, but still expect men to pay for everything, while also being free to move on to a more exciting man the second the whim strikes them. That’s a new privilege.
If we’re going to hold all men emotionally responsible for the hate women feel because of the way some men treat women, it’s misandrist to not hold all women emotionally responsible for the way some women treat men.
Slap Now, instead of defending yourself, I want you to sit back and listen to why the mistreatment I’ve received from others made me do that.
This shit is ridiculous 🙄 Well said on the “victims of a broken system” thing.