What happens when your kids want to buy merchandise from a store? When they get older and decide to spend their own money on DVDs? What about the racism and misogyny these books teach to children?
If the worst you have to worry about your kids’ interests is whether they spend their allowance on things that somehow benefit an asshole person you are really very lucky.
Personally, I only prevent the one single worst thing that I can think of happening to my kids. As long as they don’t become Hitler, I’m happy. My son murdered and raped a family of 4 last week and is in prison, but I don’t think I need to worry about that because he’s not Hitler.
When they are old enough to make their own decisions they can. I’m able to seperate the art from the artist, without introducing them to hateful commentary that they aren’t able to properly process yet.
Not showing them Harry Potter does not mean they won’t be exposed to the media or the merchandise through friends and shops.
Hitler, again, was an even more awful person. That doesn’t make the autobahns that his government started a bad idea. However, we as a world society decided that the data from the nazi experimentation on twins, on people with disabilities and others would be destroyed.
Hitler was an artist, but not a great one from my understanding. It’s trivia, rather than who he was. He was a monster that killed millions. It’s very different.
JK is an author. It’s what she’s known for. Her work has not changed based on her views which were not known then. In fact, I think some fans were upset when she retconned some characters to be more woke, prior to becoming transphobia personified.
Her work may not have “changed”, but many elements in retrospect have obvious bigoted undertones, whether she intended them or not. We simply weren’t looking for them as children, and didn’t notice or understand.
Neil Gaiman is an alleged rapist. Does that mean the sexual scenes in his books are not valid?
Horrible people is part of the human condition. Erasing them means we don’t learn from it.
We can now better recognise the problematic parts of her work to gently help kids to appreciate it. Kids won’t get the metaphors with slavery, racism, sexism that all exist with the potterverse. However, showing them these problems even in a fantastical world can help them better understand them in the real world.
Her work doesn’t become pointless just by virtue of her being horrible. For some artists, that can even be the point. Look at Joss Whedon, who was lauded for writing powerful female characters. It’s now clear he was abusive to the young women in his vicinity. Does that make Buffy less of a heroine or more?
This doesn’t really relate to what I said whatsoever, because I never said her books or pointless or that we should erase her. I also didn’t even say you’re not allowed to read to books to your kid. Just that its content isnt great, and perhaps there are much better books for kids to read, such as the ones she lifted from, like the Earthsea Cycle.
No, that wasn’t my implication (not quite as strong as that, anyway), nor did you change my mind. I still think it would be better to be reading better art, made by better people. Doesn’t mean I’m trying to, like, ban Harry Potter books.
Why not skip the books then? The movies were made by hundreds of awesome people while the books were written by just her. The movies cut out a lot of the controversial stuff too.
Because reading the books is a good educational experience for kids. I don’t allow them watch the movies until the books are read. Movies can miss nuance and have less information and world building. There is racism and bigotry and horrible things happening in life. I explain it to my kids at appropriate times.
When I first discussed the holocaust(very broadly), for example, they didn’t understand why someone would hate others for religion only, as religion is not important to us. Nor was it a good reason to not like someone from their understanding. They understand simpler concepts like absolute good and absolute evil. Goodies and baddies. More complex topics like themes in Harry Potter books being problematic is beyond their understanding completely.
Other books with good themes but problematic authors or themes include Enders Game, starship troopers, religious texts. Authors include Neil Gaiman, Sylvia Plath, Virginia Woolf, Dr Seuss, Enid blyton, Shakespeare, Stephanie Meyer, etc etc
That doesn’t make the books useless. Rhoal Dahl has problematic parts. Rhoal Dahl was also racist. That doesn’t mean we skip Charlie and the chocolate factory.
What happens when your kids want to buy merchandise from a store? When they get older and decide to spend their own money on DVDs? What about the racism and misogyny these books teach to children?
If the worst you have to worry about your kids’ interests is whether they spend their allowance on things that somehow benefit an asshole person you are really very lucky.
Personally, I only prevent the one single worst thing that I can think of happening to my kids. As long as they don’t become Hitler, I’m happy. My son murdered and raped a family of 4 last week and is in prison, but I don’t think I need to worry about that because he’s not Hitler.
Sad you were down voted, because you perfectly summarised the awful place “it could be worse” inevitably leads
When they are old enough to make their own decisions they can. I’m able to seperate the art from the artist, without introducing them to hateful commentary that they aren’t able to properly process yet.
Not showing them Harry Potter does not mean they won’t be exposed to the media or the merchandise through friends and shops.
I’m also able to separate the art from the artist, which is why my house is filled with original Hitlers. I find his perspective interesting.
Hitler, again, was an even more awful person. That doesn’t make the autobahns that his government started a bad idea. However, we as a world society decided that the data from the nazi experimentation on twins, on people with disabilities and others would be destroyed.
Hitler was an artist, but not a great one from my understanding. It’s trivia, rather than who he was. He was a monster that killed millions. It’s very different.
JK is an author. It’s what she’s known for. Her work has not changed based on her views which were not known then. In fact, I think some fans were upset when she retconned some characters to be more woke, prior to becoming transphobia personified.
Her work may not have “changed”, but many elements in retrospect have obvious bigoted undertones, whether she intended them or not. We simply weren’t looking for them as children, and didn’t notice or understand.
If you’re interested in what some of these things are, Youtuber Shaun has an excellent video going over some of them.
Also, the Hitler point was merely a reductio ad absurdum to demonstrate that “separating the art from the artist” is pure luxury.
Neil Gaiman is an alleged rapist. Does that mean the sexual scenes in his books are not valid?
Horrible people is part of the human condition. Erasing them means we don’t learn from it.
We can now better recognise the problematic parts of her work to gently help kids to appreciate it. Kids won’t get the metaphors with slavery, racism, sexism that all exist with the potterverse. However, showing them these problems even in a fantastical world can help them better understand them in the real world.
Her work doesn’t become pointless just by virtue of her being horrible. For some artists, that can even be the point. Look at Joss Whedon, who was lauded for writing powerful female characters. It’s now clear he was abusive to the young women in his vicinity. Does that make Buffy less of a heroine or more?
This doesn’t really relate to what I said whatsoever, because I never said her books or pointless or that we should erase her. I also didn’t even say you’re not allowed to read to books to your kid. Just that its content isnt great, and perhaps there are much better books for kids to read, such as the ones she lifted from, like the Earthsea Cycle.
Your implication in the Hitler reference was that we should not appreciate art from horrible people.
I’m glad my points changed your mind so much that we now agree, for the most part. ;)
No, that wasn’t my implication (not quite as strong as that, anyway), nor did you change my mind. I still think it would be better to be reading better art, made by better people. Doesn’t mean I’m trying to, like, ban Harry Potter books.
It would take a saint’s patience to stop the book at every racist moment and explain why it’s wrong.
Why not skip the books then? The movies were made by hundreds of awesome people while the books were written by just her. The movies cut out a lot of the controversial stuff too.
Because reading the books is a good educational experience for kids. I don’t allow them watch the movies until the books are read. Movies can miss nuance and have less information and world building. There is racism and bigotry and horrible things happening in life. I explain it to my kids at appropriate times.
When I first discussed the holocaust(very broadly), for example, they didn’t understand why someone would hate others for religion only, as religion is not important to us. Nor was it a good reason to not like someone from their understanding. They understand simpler concepts like absolute good and absolute evil. Goodies and baddies. More complex topics like themes in Harry Potter books being problematic is beyond their understanding completely.
Other books with good themes but problematic authors or themes include Enders Game, starship troopers, religious texts. Authors include Neil Gaiman, Sylvia Plath, Virginia Woolf, Dr Seuss, Enid blyton, Shakespeare, Stephanie Meyer, etc etc
That doesn’t make the books useless. Rhoal Dahl has problematic parts. Rhoal Dahl was also racist. That doesn’t mean we skip Charlie and the chocolate factory.